I recently had a conversation with Mike Silva about this issue on Twitter, and he wrote it up over at NYBD. I was hoping for some more opinions on the issue:
Essentially Moshe and I were discussing how, in his words, “Jeter’s contract negotiations are going to be a total disaster. Epic.” The Captain is going to want between $18-$20 million per year, perhaps for as much as four years, and he clearly is not worth that investment. Even if you are in the camp of paying for past performance Jeter has raked in $205 million dollars to date. Does that not compensate for five titles and 2,800 hits?
Moshe went on to say that perhaps the Yankees could “hardline” Jeter during negotiations. Force him to take something in between absurd and market value. He is probably more of a $12 million dollar per year ballplayer so perhaps $15 million is a good target to shoot towards. Of course, the four years are atrocious since I basically believe the Yankees should move on from Jeter as soon as possible after his 3,000th hit. You can hide Steve Carlton when he loses his fastball, but not Derek Jeter at shortstop.
The major point made by Mandel is hardlining the Captain. Who in their right mind would give Jeter what he wants? Would Derek be so vindictive that he takes a shorter deal somewhere else to punish the Yankees? Does he want to be like Wade Boggs who collected his 3,000th hit wearing a Devil Rays uniform? Better yet, what team will pay top dollar just to hurt the Yankees in this economy? I can’t think of any right now.
Mike summed up my thoughts pretty well. While I do not want the Yankees to treat Jeter poorly or to lowball him, I would like for them to enter the negotiations without the feeling that they need to “take care of Jeter.” The Yankees have been just as important to Jeter as he has been to the Yankees, and it would behoove them to refrain from feeling as if they owe him a deal vastly out of proportion with his value. I cannot see him leaving or another club matching even a reduced Yankee offer. Taking a hardline stance in which they refuse to go more than two years, or alternatively, to exceed 15 million per year on a slightly longer deal, might make them the high bidder while keeping the cost below the stratospheric levels some expect it to reach.
What do you think? How would you approach the negotiations?
Hi Mo,
I always mean to comment more but my damn work browser and TYU are like oil and water…
I’m with you 100%. As much as fans might freak out about any perceived slight towards Jeter during these difficult contract negotiations, I do believe that the Yanks would be justified (and smart) to play the same sort of hardball with Jeter thay they played with Pettitte after the 2008 season.
As long as Jeter’s 2010 performance resembles 2008/career-worsts across the board, the Yanks should have the leverage to demand:
(i) that Jeter be moved off SS on the team’s timetable;
(ii) that any contract be no longer than two years with mutual options (plus buyouts) for third and fourth years; and
(iii) that the base compensation be no more than $13M (but with “milestone” bonuses, as well as reachable escalators which could push total compensation to $16M).
If Jeter takes offense to the team’s stance…well…that’s just how it goes. Both parties would suffer for any future dis-association but the Yanks would be better off in the long term.
Montero+____(s) for Tulowitzki could be a satisfactory bit of leverage, if timed with any Jeter contract negotation. MJ Recanati(Quote)
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I think this is going to hurt. and probably hurt bad.
And i think its all on Jeter. What he wants he’ll get, is my opinion. If he goes into the negotiations and is hell bent on say 4 years and 80 million dollars or more…well i fear he’ll get it because i don’t think the Yankees have the balls to say no and let him leave.
I think us logical and reasonable fans will say,”ok seeya” if his demands are straight insanity but we are strongly outnumbered by overreacting retards who will make the yankees out to be the Hitler (well mccarver already does that anyway) and nothing else. and i don’t think the yankees will be able to do that.
If Derek Jeter is not back with the New York Yankees…no matter his demands…there is no way the yankees will be anything but in the wrong in the eyes of the mass media and most fans. j_Yankees(Quote)
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Reggie C. Reply:
August 5th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
IF DJ isnt back it’d be for one of these reasons:
1. He flat out retired after getting his contract demand rejected.
2. He signed elsewhere for a whole lot LESS after talks with the Yanks broke down.
3. He died, in which case it doesnt matter if a new contract was reached.
Do i want any of these things to happen? HELLZ NO! I just want to lay out the improbability of DJ not being in pinstripes next season. Reggie C.(Quote)
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If DJ turns it around down the home stretch, he’ll have to do so squaring off against teams with good pitching staffs. Chances arent great that he’ll another 4 hit outburst again this season. I hope i’m wrong though.
Cashman is darn good at tuning out the media & crazy fans who’d support a new 4 yr deal. Cash knows that he cant tie down the team to another large AAS when the Steinbrenners are tightening the money supply.
Its simply smarter to pay Lee top dollar than give in to Dj ‘s likely demands.
Hold the line at 2 yrs, 15 million per. Club option for a 3rd. Make him take a pay cut. Its insane to pay 20 million to a SS with little range and who’s OPS has fallen off a cliff. Reggie C.(Quote)
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If the main goal of the Yankees is to win and not appease the media and fans, then a hard line stance of at maximum 2 years is a must. Given the Yankees ability to spend money, I’d generously put it at $12-15M/year as the offer. As you correctly mentioned, on the open market Jeter wouldn’t get anything approaching what a reduced Yankees offer would be. The Yankees can’t compound the ARod contract, by overpaying with years and $$ for Jeter. In addition, the Yankees know Jeter doesn’t want to play anywhere else, nor will he get more money if he leaves, so he too has to be careful. Lastly, unless Hal jumps in, Cashman isn’t likely to overpay to appease the fan base. For example, Bernie coming off a big contract went from making $12M to ~$2M. Cashman didn’t foolishly throw extra $ at Bernie for his past contributions. While this won’t happen to Jeter (I know its not complete apples to apples analogy), if the Yankees did anything else but take a hard stance, then shame on them for letting the fans/media dictate their baseball operations…as the saying goes, “If you listen to fans in the seats, you’ll end up sitting right next to them”. eddieperez23(Quote)
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I’ll make this prediction: 4 years, $70-80M. Realistically I wouldn’t be unhappy with 3 years, $45M. The biggest question is whether they pay him on the ARod/Tex scale or treat him like Mariano. I’m really hoping it’s like Mariano.
Do I wish we had a young, sweet-hitting SS prospect in Double A preparing to make the leap in 2011-2012? es. Are there many of those in all of baseball? No. Stephen R.(Quote)
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bg90027 Reply:
August 5th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
I agree with you. I’ll also add that I don’t really care what they pay him. I don’t really think that the difference between a 4 year, $80 million contract and a 3 year, $45 million contract is going to hamstring the Yankees. Jeter is a special case. I can’t picture them playing hardball with him. bg90027(Quote)
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I’d rather overpay in money than years. 2/40 would be a dream. Matt Imbrogno(Quote)
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bg90027 Reply:
August 5th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
I’d like to see this too or even better a Wakefield like deal with endless player options but a low base ($10-12) and very generous performance options. I just don’t see them playing hard ball unless he were to demand something completely unrealistic like 7+ years at big money which I’d be surprised if he did. I think they will do their best to keep negotiations out of the press and to reach a quick agreement. Would 4 years, $80 million be overpaying based on his likely on-field contributions? Of course. He’s a special case though and I think they’ll be willing to overpay and that doing so won’t impact other decisions. bg90027(Quote)
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Anything more than two years will hamstring the team. In 2012, Jeter will turn 38, how many guys can play a quality SS at that age? So even with just a two year deal, it is likely to hurt the team. Can’t move him to 1st base, and who becomes a corner OF at 38? So there is no realistic spot for Jeter on this team in 2012 and especially beyond, and he does not fit the DH profile either. Besides, Alex is likely to take that role [DH] in 2013.
Personally, I thank Jeter, but he has made plenty of money and is owed nothing by the team. Don(Quote)
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It’s important to remember that this contract will be negotiated with Brian Cashman. Hank and Hal learned a hard lesson with the A-Rod contract (which they negotiated themselves) which now is universally viewed as being too long and for too much money. Brian was very outspoken about being opposed to the Alex deal, and repeated that stance earlier this year at the WFAN breakfast.
That being said, we all know Derek is a special case. He’ll get paid, but I think Brian will keep things reasonable. 3 years around 50-60 mil. He will also lay the groundwork for an eventual move off SS sometime during the deal. Steve S.(Quote)
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Moshe Mandel Reply:
August 5th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
I’d be ok with that. Out of my hardline range, but 3 years is a length during which he can still be effective. May no longer be a 20M a year player, but solid enough for his position that it wont look utterly atrocious. Moshe Mandel(Quote)
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Tabata Daycare Reply:
August 6th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
From SS to where? If 2010 is any indication of what’s to come offensively, I’d rather have Gardner or Granderson in LF. DH is tied up w/ A-Rod, Tex, Montero. Flip-Flop Jeter and Cano? That’s really the only choice. Tabata Daycare(Quote)
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I agree with the 2@30 with options & incentives group. I think, considering the likelihood of him falling off a cliff in the next year or so, that’s a pretty generous offer. If he’s insulted, he can go join Torre in LA. oldpep(Quote)
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bornwithpinstripes Reply:
August 5th, 2010 at 8:50 pm
Hi oldpep…I think your man berkman wakes up vs sox.. bornwithpinstripes(Quote)
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Pay the man. We are a team that can, and he is a guy we should.
If Jeter ever plays in another uniform it will be a complete and utter fail on the Yankees’ part.
He wont be worth the money he gets as far as performance goes, but we’re talking about arguably the second most popular Yankee ever.
Gotta pay him and watch him try and get to 4,000 in the house he built. RE(Quote)
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Team has to come first. Jeter should know this. The question is whether he’ll let his ego (and let’s be honest, most athelete’s have egos – its how they get to the top) get in the way.
The truth is his time at short is limited, and we are running out of places to put him. The infield is spoken for, he lacks the power nomally expected from an outfielder or DH, and I think its too late to make him a catcher.
In the end, Jeter needs the Yankees more than the Yankees need him. No other team or fanbase will give Jeter the money or adulation he gets here. And while the Yankees would be hurt by losing Jeter, this is a team of stars, with a bright one sitting down in Scranton waiting to be unleashed upon the Bronx.
The Yanks can and should “overpay” a bit for Jeter, but going over $15m a year at this point, with this economy, would be foolish. And giving Jeter anything more than a 3 year deal is courting trouble, any more than 4 is plain foolish. misterd(Quote)
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one thing i don’t think we (or at least I) really know is how much revenue a particular players generates for a team and whether that additional revenue is worth the cost of a diminished player (of course, winning generates the most revenue). there was some talk about this when the yanks let matsui go (due to his presumed selling power in the japanese market). it’s been estimated that strassburg’s starts generate about $1M of revenue for the nats. he’s clearly a special case and this doesn’t include mechandising etc, which is where the Yankees’ revenue from the Captain’s is likely most powerful. hopefully, someone with the front office is smart enough to figure all this out and a hard-line may be a good idea if the metrix don’t point to a net positive. jason(Quote)
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