Yes, the word Yankee is all caps on purpose. You see, this morning two brothers posted a guest article over at Lohud suggesting that Derek Jeter is the greatest Yankee of all time. They were soundly ripped in the comments, as most of the commenters rightly noted that Jeter really has no case for being a better player than Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, or Dimaggio, and may come in behind Berra as well. However, their post also discussed the off-field scrutiny and issues that Jeter faces, and within that discussion I believe there is the seed for an interesting debate. The question is, although Jeter is not the greatest baseball player to ever play for the Yankees, is he the greatest Yankee? Is he the perfect embodiment of what a Yankee should be?
He is driven by an incredible will to win, appreciates the history and tradition that the pinstripes represent, and is always respectful of those around him. He rarely does anything that reflects a me-first attitude, is a philanthropist, and does not have his personal life plastered across the news. However, players such as Mariano Rivera and Lou Gehrig could likely say the same thing. What do you think? Is Jeter the greatest Yankee?
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If you are taking into account both on and off the field achievements, then I can’t see Jeter rating any higher than Lou Gehrig who was also an ivy league graduate.
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“There are a couple of arguments against him being the all-time best Yankee. The first might be his lack of AL MVP awards. DiMaggio and Mantle captured three awards each, Gehrig two and Ruth one.”
Talk about apples and oranges. Ruth only won one because from 22-29 (his best seasons) prior award winners were ineligible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_Most_Valuable_Player_Award
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Steve S. Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:17 pm
I should have mentioned Ruth won the MVP in 23.
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susan Reply:
February 4th, 2010 at 8:35 pm
In considering Jeter’s overall value as a Yankee, the AL MVP ignores his efforts in up to 3 levels of post season play, MLB having expanded it in 1995. Even if players in earlier eras made the post season every year, they had more time to rest up than players today (with the exception of 1981). You may recall the reference to Jeter as “Mr. November.” Many newspapers no longer allow employees to vote on these awards, and there are fewer newspapers and employees than ever these days. At least one regular BBWAA voter recently mentioned how difficult it is to find qualified voters now. Regarding the 2006 AL MVP voting, Mike Vaccaro wrote about it in the NY Post, 11/22/06, “Bronx Bias Strikes Jeter.” From the article: “This time, it was an MVP Award, one that he deserved, one that should have his name on it, one that was taken from him primarily because of the team he plays for and the city he plays in. The voters will tell you differently, but know this: If Derek Jeter had the season he had playing for the Minnesota Twins, and if Justin Morneau had the season he had playing for the Yankees, it would be Jeter who would be reserving space on his shelf for the MVP plaque.”…I saved the article. I also separately saved the names of the voters and their ballots. Of the 2 NY area voters, only one of them voted Jeter #1. The other voter, Ed Price, voted Jeter #2.
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One must take into account the next few years to make any comparison.
Some say, he is a win first team first player…I think the next contract and few years, will show us how true that is. To put anyone of this generation up with the players of Ruth and Gehrig day is a little like comparing a model “T” to a “Mustang”
How good do you think an infielder would be today, if he had to ware the flannels and use the gloves they had back in the day. Do you think guys that dive into the ball (as dose Jeter) would be the same hitter as he has been, with Sal “the barber” or Bob Turley pitching to him. They would hit him in a heart beat, and Turleys fast ball was faster then Jobas best day.
Jeter has been a very good player with the Yankees at a high profile position for a long time but, as great as those mentioned in the post…I don’t think so, it’s a different era and a different game today then in years past.
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Babe Ruth .. no one will ever be him or close to him..
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If you’re going to make this a question beyond their performance as players, then it’s a more or less unanswerable question. Does Jeter’s philanthropy count less because he makes so much more money than Gehrig? How much should we count Joe Dimaggio’s service in World War II? You may as well ask “Who was the best human being?”.
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Moshe Mandel Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:34 pm
I’m not so sure if it is unanswerable, considering that most people would name the same 5 or 6 names. I think that suggests that there is something about those players that makes them embodiments of what fans believe a Yankee should be, and the same criteria can be used to whittle the last down to the top Yankee.
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Matt Imbrogno Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 10:24 pm
This is something that is definitely not brought up enough in regards to pre-1946 MLB.
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This guy had giambis back when his juicing went public but ran and started telling reports how hes a clean player when arod got caught. Fuck that. If your suppose to be a leader act like a leader.
Mo is the greatest yankee of our generation and jeter barely makes the top ten of all time..
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About the time Roger hit 61 HRs there was an article about how Babe and Lou would fare in todays (1960) game. They came to the conclusion that they would have been even better then they were back in the day…by a long shot.
Most people have seen pictures of The Babe in his later years…as an over weight slow player. Actually, he was a very good all around player (and pitcher) and fast.
In other words, it was a supposition based on the talent of each and players that had played with them. Just think of putting a bat like they use today in the hands of Ruth with the dilution of the pitching today…!
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Moshe Mandel Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:33 pm
Of course, on the other hand, Ruth played in a league with only white players. I had a person on Twitter tell me that a relative of his (great uncle, or something like that) played in the Negro Leagues, and said they didnt think Ruth was all that great. I think it is very difficult to answer the “how would they have played now” question. Best you can do is compare a player to his peers.
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Steve S. Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:45 pm
He also played in an 8 team league. Just imagine how good most teams in the AL would be now if you cut the league in half. That’s why I’ve always argued that expansion has accommodated for the added population groups from the Black community, Latin America, Asia and so forth.
Also, Baseball was THE main sport back then (along with Boxing). Football, Basketball, and Hockey didn’t siphon off talent that way they do today. The great multi-sport athlete of today has many choices, and other sports offer a quicker payday than baseball does, so top talents go elsewhere.
Of course, the US population was much smaller, so the pool of talent you were drawing from was smaller as well.
So all in all, it’s a wash. Very tough to argue eras definitively one way or the other.
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Didn’t Gehrig leave Columbia to join the Yanks? Anyways, I agree That the iron horse stands above Jeter. SO does Ruth in my opinion because he is really where it all started.
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Steve S. Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 8:57 pm
Ruth was a big man playing what was until then a little man’s game. You’ll notice that players like Gehrig, Hank Greenberg, Jommy Foxx and others came into the league soon thereafter and starting putting up numbers close to Ruth’s. He was an innovator, and innovators always have an edge over competition doing things the old way.
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the other Steve S. Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:06 am
Gehrig was only at Columbia one or two years. He didn’t graduate.
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I think Jeter would have been better than Ruth if he also got to play in the 1920’s. Yes, I’m not on crack, I really believe that.
In the 1920’s, there might have been less teams in the league but I don’t think you saw guys put the effort into the game back then. Also, people just weren’t as big and strong back then. They didn’t understand how to eat right and weight train like athletes do. As it was stated earlier, there also were no blacks allowed to play but also no players coming from Latin America or Japan.
So, he might not have been quite the power hitter that Ruth was back in the day but I firmly believe Jeter would hit .400/.520/.600 if he were to be sent to 1920 while in his prime. Go ahead and rip away people.
Now, for the greatest YANKEE, I think that he might have a good shot at this one. He isn’t the hitter that Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, or Joe D put up but has been unbelievably durable in his career. Add to that that he’s been about the only player to consistently show the class that he has in this day and age. Plus, as some have pointed out, he could still play what another 5 years? If he ends up with over 4,000 hits, he’s going to go down as one of the greatest offensive forces at a premium defensive position of all time.
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Ken (O.R.) Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 1:27 am
Can you see Jeter playing with the gloves and bats they had back in the day? Travel by train and bus, not have the medical and training gadgets they have now days. Having to hold down a real job after the season ended, because they didn’t make a lot of money back then? Facing the best of the best pitcher of those days, every at bat…only 8 or 10 teams and three pitchers (sometimes 4).
Nowdays, one gets by the number 1/2 starters on a team, and you may be facing a pitcher that should be in AAA or out of baseball and would be selling newspapers in the old days.
Don’t get me wrong, the players today are some of the best but, they have a lot of things going for them the olden time players never had. Those that compare that generation with this generation…good luck! There is no comparison…is there?
Also, Satchel Page, once said; The Babe would always have a stomach problem when he was pitching against the Yankees traveling team in the off season. He also said, that he was one of the best players he had ever seen…even if he was white!
For those that don’t know; At one time, Satchel was regarded as one of the best pitchers in the world by many of the ball players of his day. I am not very PC, so I won’t put the obligatory B or W at the end.
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My top five?
Ruth
Gehrig
Mantle
DiMaggio
Jeter/Yogi
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Steve S. Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 9:35 pm
My top 5:
Snuffy Stirnweiss
Shelly Duncan
Howie Spira
Steve Balboni
The unnamed Marshmallow Salesman from 1978
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Matt Imbrogno Reply:
February 2nd, 2010 at 10:10 pm
Snuffy? Somewhere, David Cone is smiling.
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To add to Steve’s comments, I think it’s worth noting that in (and prior to) Ruth’s era everybody played baseball. There were town leagues, a great many ‘minor leagues’ and semi-pro leagues. There was also no TV and when kids played ball in a park there was no little league to chase them away.
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In my opinion, if we were to look at a combination of ability, durability, and affability, the greatest YANKEE of them all has been Yogi Berra. Looking at his accomplishments while wearing a uniform, Yogi played on 10 WS winners and 14 pennants as a HOF catcher, led the team to 1 pennant as a manager, and participated in 2 WS champions, 4 pennants and 5 division titles as a coach. Perhaps more importantly, he had the courage to stand up to the madness of GS III when he was unceremoniously tossed aside as a manager in the mid-1980s. Finally, during the entirety of his affiliation with the team which now covers part of EIGHT decades, he has been untainted by any hint of scandal and remains a beloved figure throughout the game, even by those who hate the Yankees
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the other Steve S. Reply:
February 3rd, 2010 at 8:08 am
Have to agree.
Yogi
Casey
Gerhig
Babe
Mickey
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Gehrig, FTW.
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not only was Ruth the greatest yankee… he was BaseBall.. the greatest baseball man ever.. Mr. baseball..he was an orphan i believe.. off the field life was a story also.. this guy rode the railways around the country signing balls bats and visiting children.. he was the guy everyone stat wise has chased for decades.. THe HR is what brought people to the parks.. Babe Ruth………..has a majestic ring ….
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