Curtis Granderson may have been the one having a press conference, but Brian Cashman stole the show. 1050 ESPN Radio has been reporting all day that the Yankee GM said that Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes will be competing for ONE spot in the rotation this spring, with the runner-up heading to the bullpen. He made it clear that they’re still in the market for a starter, but even if that fails the have a bevy of alternatives with Chad Gaudin, Alfredo Aceves, Ivan Nova, Zachary McCallister among others.
UPDATE-Apparently 1050 ESPN Radio blew a few innocuous quotes into something they were not. Good job by Ben at River Av exposing this, the audio link I listened to at LoHud had was largely inaudible once Cashman started speaking. Once again the blogosphere is more reliable than the NY Sports media. What a shock.
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I haven’t heard that anywhere else, Steve. In fact, all I’ve heard is that he said Joba has no innings limit, but Hughes does, but Phil is still up for a starting spot.
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Steve S. Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Cashman has made statements that neither would have innings limits going into this year. But it would stand to reason that Joba would have a leg up anyway, since he has 4 workable pitches and Phil has 2.
They’ve been reporting it all day on their 20/20. Here’s a link if you want to confirm.
http://stations.espn.go.com/stations/1050espnradio/show?showId=TMKS
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Moshe Mandel Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
Nah, I trust you. I dont particularly trust them, which is why I was hoping for another (preferably local) source. I wonder if this is Cash signaling to free agents that a slot is available in the rotation.
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Steve S. Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
I didn’t mean you don’t believe me, but you may want to hear it for yourself to get your own take on it. Wording, whatnot.
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The other Chris H Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
I assume Sheets would be worried about coming into a situation where he could end up on the 15 day DL and come back to no rotation spot, so maybe you’re right and this is a way to ease his worries about having to fight off Hughes or Joba all year.
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Steve S. Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Mo, this was your piece about neither pitcher having limits. Have you heard something else since then?
http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/?p=9202
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Moshe Mandel Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Cash said today that Phil has a limit. He did say in that article you linked that any limits wouldnt be significant. Not sure what to make of all this yet.
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I think it is a terrible idea. On the surface, it makes sense, because they need an 8th inning guy, so if you get Sheets or think Aceves can you solid production as a starter, you move one of those guys to the bullpen. However, if either of those guys goes to the pen, he is likely never coming out, in which case you might as well have included him in a trade for Halladay or Lee, or someone of that ilk.
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Steve S. Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
I figure it will be Joba in the rotation, but don’t rule out Hughes starting this year. He’s an obvious option in case of injury, and also if Joba regresses further as a starter you could flip the two of them mid season, and not have to worry about Phil’s innings limits.
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Moshe Mandel Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
I would be fine with this if they send the loser of the competition down to start in the minors. I just dont want to go backwards in terms of innings, especially with Hughes. As we get further from his previous career high, it becomes less relevant.
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Steve S. Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
Even if both of these guys never pitch full seasons by the time they’re 25, I don’t think that’s a bad thing and it wouldn’t change my mind about them being starters long term. Look up David Wells and Nolan Ryan’s early stats. Both had their pre-age 25 innings held down due to various reasons (injury/bullpen work/military duty) and wound up being rubber armed pitchers who lasted well into their 40s. It could actually be a good thing for them long term, holding their innings down.
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The other Chris H Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
Yeah, but most likely that isn’t going to be how it works I have a feeling that once Joba or Hughes go back to the pen they go for good and the Yankees move on with their plans for the starting rotation of the future, I mean Hughes and Joba both have a lot of questions surrounding whether they can even be starters si it’s pretty likely they would never escape the pen once they re-join it.
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The other Chris H Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
I don’t understand why the loser has to go to the pen? Doesn’t it make more sense in Joba’s case to send him to the minors so he can actually get some of the triple A starts he missed out on? It just seems to me that it would be a smarter idea to let Hughes start and see what he can do (because he has nothing left to learn in Scranton) in the rotation and allow Joba to focus on developing his secondary pitches, maintain velocity and control and come up in the middle of the season or when there is an injury.
Both seem like they have the abiltity to be starting pitchers and I understand not wanting both in the same rotation because they are both learning but it just seems like Scranton is the better place for Joba than the pen. Joba hasn’t even made a start in triple A in his life so it’s not like he has been there done that like Hughes has. This is the chance to fix all the undeveloping the Yankees did to Chamberlain.
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Wouldn’t you have to send Hughes to Scranton for a couple weeks to stretch him out in order to switch the two? Seems like if you misread which one will be the better starter you end up with a mess you have to slowly fix and maybe hurt the team in doing so.
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Steve S. Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
Yeah, but that’s why I said mid season. Send one down a week or so before the All Star break and between off days and the break, they wouldn’t miss more than 2-3 starts by the time they’re stretched out.
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The other Chris H Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
I would rather just have Joba in Scranton and that way if Hughes is struggling to the point he can’t hold down the rotation spot then you have your answer and you can send him to the pen at that point and call Joba up from Scranton without missing a beat and the team upgrades all in one day.
It just makes more sense to me to send the loser and preferably Joba to Scranton over the pen… Maybe it’s just me and possibly Moe on that idea right now because other than Moe today I haven’t seen many bring anything up other than one to the pen.
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Joba can find a way to win games as a starter, we’ve seen that.Phil has never succeeded as a starter in the ML’s.In matter of fact when Phil was asked about relief or starting last year, one got the feeling he was more confident he could relieve than start successfully.
He talked about not worrying about making huge dollars, just to be comfortable and be able to support a family.To me, that was saying, starting isn’t the be all end all and resigning himself to be a reliever and hopefully, eventually a closer, if that cutter gets better under Mariano’s tuteladge.
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Steve S. Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
Phil needs a 3rd pitch to start. Joba already has 3 plus pitches and a decent changeup.
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The other Chris H Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
Phil has a 4-seam fastball, a knucklecurve, a cutter, a slider and a weak changeup…
To me he can probably win with those pitches his fastball is really straight to be so slow but his cutter can keep hitters off the 4-seam and his curve is nasty and while he abandoned it a few years ago he really brought the slider back out in the pen this year and proved it to be a good pitch.
I heard Phil speak last year and he said he was fine with being in the pen but that he still considered himself a starting pitcher at heart and wanted to return to the rotation.
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I will be rooting for Joba in spring training to get the rotation spot but I think this is going to come down to velocity, if Joba is still throwing 89-93 MPH in the starting rotation then you will see him sent to the pen because there isn’t much future for him as an ace in the rotation at that point and if he is throwing 94-96 in the rotation then you will probably see Hughes sent to the pen where his velocity and movement plays a lot better than it does in the rotation.
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How do you know Hughes will be throwing harder than 89-93 as a starter, he didn’t often either.
Both pick up velocity as relievers.
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The other Chris H Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
Hughes will be throwing 89-93 MPH because that is the range at which he throws but what does that matter to Joba?
Hughes can be a 3 or 4 starter with that kind of velocity because it is natural for him with Joba 89-93 is not natural!
Joba was a starting pitcher throwing 93-98 MPH he is much more dependent on velocity than Hughes is because Hughes has been pitching his whole career with 89-93 MPH velocity… Neither one of them is ace material IMO because Hughes never had much movement on his fastball and natural has very low velocity but Joba was a flame thrower at one point while starting for some reason that has left him and if he doesn’t get it back he won’t be an ace. or even close.
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Either will be fine for me but right now I think Joba has the better chance to make it as a starter.
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The other Chris H Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Joba has far more upside if he can correct his velocity but if he keeps throwing 89-93 as a starter we may have 2 relievers and no starters between the 2.
I can’t understand being willing to trade Montero but not one of these 2 in a deal for an ace pitcher, Montero is all but can’t miss and these guys are already close to a miss in the rotation.
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Yankees are so, so loaded at catcher and all will be better defensively than Jesus.
There’s an article today on Yankees scout site on the catchers.
Yankee Catching Coach say’s he thinks Montero can make it as a ML catcher but when asked about the others, he raves about them defensively.
Romine does everything well including hit.Higiashioka is great with the pitching staff (as is Romine) Murphy has huge upside, and Gary Sanchez hits like Montero and throws like Romine and he’s 16 years old.
Damon Taverez is a beast also who has a canon and can really hit.
To me Catcher is a defensive position first and when a guy can handle pitchers AND hit, you have something special.
Yankees have 5 of those guys without Montero.
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The other Chris H Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
None of those players are Montero with the bat and even if he isn’t a catcher he still has a chance to be one of the best DH’s in the league by the time he is 26… Why trade that away over Joba and Hughes?
Higiashioka hasn’t even pitched in A ball yet so he is nothing to the team as of right now and may never even see MLB action.
Romine has never been above A ball and is the only one of those guys besides Montero who is even being considered for the majors.
Jr Murphy has just been drafted and is even more raw than Higiashioka.
Sanchez like Murphy and Higiashioka is no where close to the major league and may never actually make it that far… If you are willing to trade Montero because we have Higiashioka Murphy and Sanchez I highly disagree!
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Without rehashing the comments above me on this thread, I have to say that this is Cashman’s dumbest comment yet — unless it’s just a mental ploy to get two guys to focus hard and truly compete to earn their spots on the roster (unlike 2008 when Hughes/Kennedy had the rotation spots given to them outright).
If Cashman truly means this, he’s a certifiable moron and would risk undoing all the progress made last year in the way of stretching his pitchers out.
If Cashman is saying this as a motivational ploy, I’m definitely thrilled to hear that the young arms will be forced to earn their way onto the roster. Hopefully the “loser” of the competition ends up in Scranton and not in the bullpen…
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That’s the key here. I will add that it seems the Yankees use a players previous career high in establishing an innings baseline, such that they wont really undo progress, just not progress further.
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The other Chris H Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
That is what I have been saying from the beginning it would be much better for all involved if Joba goes to the minors and not the pen, it would finally allow him to develop without win now pressures from the big league club.
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leftylarry Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
There is as much chance of one of those guys going to the minors when we just traded two relievers as there is of hair growing on Girardi’s tongue.
The so called loser becomes the 8th inning guy and tries again the following season when Andy is gone or is groomed as a closer.
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The other Chris H Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
See I think they probably just get relegated to the setup role forever and they never let them try again to start because what would be the point after making them relievers again. You don’t want to yo-yo these guys like that or they will get hurt or their confidence will die and Hughes only has so much as it is.
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Don’t bet on Kyle Higgy not seeing the ML’s.
He is the catcher EVERY pitcher wants to throw to down there and he can hit and has some power too.Catcher is a leadership position and he’s a leader.
If Yankees didn’t have Montero and Romine and Sanchez now, the dolts who make up the top 10-25-50 lists would have him way up there as a catching prospect.
I believe Damon Tavarez will emerge big time also.He’s thick strong, supposedly a tireless worker, has a great arm and gets the pitchers to pitch well also from everyhing I’ve read about him.
I don’t know if Montero is a HOF catcher or like I said, just a hitter but if Yankees were willing to let him go, there must be some big holes there like AJAX had in his game.
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The other Chris H Reply:
December 17th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
I really don’t see how you can compare him to Jackson? You have to give talent to get talent they were just willing to part with Montero because he probably won’t stick at catcher.
You act like you know a lot about these guys but since I doubt you have pitched to any of them how many times have you seen them play in person?
I don’t count on anyone in A ball or lower making to the majors because it’s just too far away! All of those guys besides Romine are at least 3 if 5 years away from even making a ML debut.
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I’m not going to make too much of this, true or not. The only thing you know for sure about the way things are is that they will change. Pettitte doesn’t have too many years left. Players get hurt (AJ is due). The best players will play. If someone is kicking butt they will find a way to get them out there no matter who is signed or not signed. To me, Chamberlain & Hughes are young guys still learning their craft and are both 2 or more years away from reaching their potential. I can’t believe the Yanks are going to permanently relegate either of them to a lesser role in the bullpen anytime soon. They will get a chance to prove themselves and this will be a subject for debate for a long time.
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Uh, I assume you’ve seen Montero catch a lot?
This is the iNTERNET.Schmoes like us get to give our opinons based on what we’ve seen and heard and based on our experience of seeing and hearing aOBUT A MILLION OTHER GUYS IN THE PAST.Excuse the caps please.
I hope Montero becomes the next great YANKEE catcher.
My experience as a businessman though tells me that when you have too many assets some that will become under utilzed assets eventually, then the best thing to do is SELL the asset that brings you the most VALUE at that particular time because if you don’t the lesser assets are assumed to be available more cheaply and you get little or nothing for them in he end.
Then if your BIG asset (Montero) tanks (it could happen, at least as a catcher) you’ve turned everything into sh-it.
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