There’s a bunch of Tweets and stories from Jordan Bastian of MLB.com that shed some light on what the Blue Jays will likely be looking for in a prospective Halladay deal. First, he has a story up on MLB.com saying that the Blue Jays are likely to lose Catcher Rod Barajas this off season. They plan on offering him arbitration, but it appears he has a multi-year deal elsewhere. He also quotes Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopoulos on his Twitter, saying this in reference to the Barajas situation:
“We’re going to keep the dialogue open. But, right now, I don’t see there being good chances of Rod coming back.”
He later Tweeted that Travis Snider has been told he will have to earn a spot on the Jays’ roster during spring training, leaving the possibility of another opening in the outfield on top of the hole left by Alex Rios last year. Finally, he sums up the info with a quote from the Blue Jays GM
Anthopoulos: No. 1 need right now is at catcher, but Jays are also looking for help in the outfield.
My first impression is that this is an attempt to draw the Yanks in to the bidding, having a plan in place for their Catching position next year that could very well be bringing Barajas back on a 2 year deal. But any good GM has a series of contingency plans, so there’s nothing really ’skull and dagger’ about that. I’m admittedly suspicious when New York beat writers are breaking Red Sox-related stories regarding Halladay, but I’ll take all of this on face value for purposes of this discussion.
This means a few things right away. First, the Red Sox are not as good a match as we initially thought. Casey Kelley is too far away and the don’t have any good catching prospects anywhere near the level of what the Yanks have to offer. The Phillies are an excellent match, maybe the best of all. They could do a Drabek/Brown package and blow everyone else out of the water. But are they willing? Coming as close as they did this season, and being a pitcher (or two) short of winning it all, you’d have to think they are. But Phillies GM Ruben Amaro has shown a willingness to go for lower cost options, opting to pass on Halladay and go for Cliff Lee last season at the trade deadline. His two top prospects may be more than he’s willing to give for one year of Roy Halladay, and I would understand that completely.
We can start drawing up our own various packages that suit the Jays needs while avoiding giving up the kind of multiple high ceiling talents and/or players on the current 25 man roster that most Yankee fans want to avoid for a single year of Halladay’s services. Offer a package that fits their needs directly, but without giving up Joba or Hughes. The Yanks have multiple players at each position of need for the Blue Jays, all of whom are close to MLB ready. A package could consist of some combination of Jesus Montero or Frankie Cervelli, Austin Jackson or Brett Gardner or Melky Cabrera, and one of our AAA arms like Zach McCallister, Ian Kennedy or Ivan Nova. I’m not going to speculate on specific packages since they instantaneously become Pinatas, and I’m sure we all have opinions on which combination is too high and which is too low to get it done. But the point is we are a good fit for the Blue Jays needs both in terms of position(s) and MLB readiness.
So the question becomes, would you be willing to give up a bat like Jesus Montero (with some other useful MLB players) for an arm like Roy Halladay? If just one high upside prospect gets it done, then I’d have to think the answer is yes. But now that Josh Johnson has become available, the decision gets tougher. Lets say Montero+ package gets you Roy Halladay, but a Montero+Joba/Hughes could land you the 26 year old Josh Johnson. Which one would you go for?
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Frankie Cervelli? Steve really? No package will contain Cervelli he has absolutley no trade value and projects as a Jose Molina like career backup, how much trade value did Jose carry over the years?
Ivan Nova? Really? He has almost as little trade value as Cervelli considering he is a sinker ball pitcher with less secondary offerings that McAllister and as low or lower velocity.
I can’t see anyway in hell Nova or Cervelli get in a trade for anyone let alone Roy Halladay, nobody wants C rated prospects!
Also Why would be trying to keep Hughes and Joba but trade Montero? I don’t get it, you could trade one of the pitchers and keep a pitcher and a top flight bat! To me the biggest problem with all of this is the fact people are so ready to throw Montero away for some 32 year old pitcher we don’t need in the first place.
Why do you think it’s Montero+ for Halladay and Montero and Hughes/Joba for Johnson?
I have heard it would take Montero and Hughes/Joba+ to get Halladay out of Toronto! IF that’s the case it’s way to much and would cost even more for Johnson!
The answer is no! I wouldn’t trade Montero for a 32 year old pitcher and I wouldn’t trade Montero and one of our best young pitchers for Johnson either.
Why is everyone so quick to trade Montero? Why does everyone want to sell on Joba at his lowest level of trade value in his short career? It doesn’t make sense and all for either a 32 year old ace we don’t need or a 27 year old ace we don’t need and either way will cost a boat load in an extension when we don’t need one anyway.
Let’s just offer McAllister, Cervelli, Melky and Ivan Nova! They will have to go for it!
When you talk catching prospects I’m sure they want Montero or Romine and not Cervelli and in the outfield I’m sure they want A.Jackson not Melky and probably not even Gardner. Ian Kennedy would be wanted way before Ivan Nova would and I doubt a package of Montero and those guys would get it done anyway.
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Steve S. Reply:
November 27th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
” The Yanks multiple players at each position, all of whom are close to MLB ready. A package could consist of some combination of Jesus Montero or Frankie Cervelli, Austin Jackson or Brett Gardner or Melky Cabrera, and one of our AAA arms like Zach McCallister, Ian Kennedy or Ivan Nova. I’m not going to speculate on specific packages since they instantaneously become Pinatas, and I’m sure we all have opinions on which combination is too high and which is too low to get it done. But the point is we are a good fit for the Blue Jays needs both in terms of position(s) and MLB readiness. “
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The other Chris H Reply:
November 27th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Like I wasn’t smart enough to read that! Way to not defend the players you put into the deal!
You can’t throw names like Cervelli or Ivan Nova around and expect me or anyone else to take you serious!
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The other Chris H Reply:
November 27th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
e may have some players they want at some positions of need but neither of those two have squat to do with Cervelli or Nova…
While we are at it lets just trade them Ramiro Pena, Kevin Russo, Juan Miranda, Eric Duncan and McAllister and get the deal done if Cervelli and Nova are in play.
To say those guys are even in the equation leads to no credibility.
At what point is it trade talking and at what point is it wishing upon a star?
Worse than that is going the other way and offering them Hughes, Montero. Jackson and Romine giving away our best players but at least that would be more realistic than Cervelli and Nova in the deal.
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The other Chris H Reply:
November 27th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Hell you could give them Cervelli, Nova, McAllister, Kennedy, A.Jackson, Cabrera and Gardner for Halladay and that still wouldn’t get the job done! Cervelli- backup, Nova-5th starter, Kennedy-4th starter, McAllister 3rd starer, Jackson starting CF, Gardner pinch runner or LF and Melky 4th outfielder or LF. None of them project to be anything but Jackson and some don’t even think he is special so what are you trading in that group?
The only players we got worth the Blue Jays trading for are Montero, Hughes and Joba and none of them are worth trading in a package for Roy!
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Chip Reply:
November 27th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
I agree that he’s not going to be worth what he’d surely cost us in draft picks but seriously man, Steve said he wasn’t going to throw packages out there but just throwing out names that we have. The Blue Jays don’t need one of Hughes/Joba as much as they need Montero or AJax in their outfield which is essentially what Steve was saying.
We’re all on the same side, man. You don’t need to get so defensive.
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daneptizl Reply:
November 28th, 2009 at 11:55 am
If you don’t know what you are talking about then don’t say anything. Nova is exactly the opposite of what you just said… he throws harder than McCallister and has a good change along with a potentially plus curve.
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ok heres my idea for halladay: romine, a-jax, z-mac, brackman or bleich and one of the young up and coming relievers like d-rob/coke/melancon too but it all depends whether toronto wants to win in 2 years or 4-5 you know? if they want to win sooner than later, they’l want/need a package centered around one of hughes/montero/joba and if thats the case NO DEAL!!! if thats the case, try for a younger guy like verlander, king felix or josh johnson if you’re planning on giving up a high end guy like hughes or montero or joba. comments?
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Chip Reply:
November 27th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
That’s probably the closest package I’ve seen thus far. I would think that’s about the minimum that the Jays would go and at that point is it worth it? I mean Jackson COULD turn out to be an absolute stud and Romine could be a solid major league catcher. Plus, you’re also going to have to pay him a ton. That’s a tough one
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jeremy Reply:
November 28th, 2009 at 12:07 am
also my plan in that deal was to give up MORE prospects so that they would not have to give up hughes or joba or montero. its unlikely toronto would budge w/o getting one of them but again, is there plan to win in 2 years or let good young prospects develop and wait 3-5 years? if it were the latter of those options, the yanks might have a good shot at making doc a yankee but we’ll see.
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Steve S. Reply:
November 28th, 2009 at 7:47 am
I’d go a bit further than you, I’d do one of the high upside guys for Roy and would put less around him. But I agree completely with your general sentiment.
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well basically it will come down to this simple point: what does toronto want/value more? bostons slightly better pitching (bard, bucholz, kelly etc.) or nyy’s much better hitting/positional prospects (a-jax, romine, gardner etc.) nyy has LOTS of young pitchers too, especially in the pen, so if i had to guess, nyy has a better chance at getting doc than boston does. will that be the case? lets wait and see, however i just dont see doc in boston but i can picture him donning pinstripes! either way you just gotta have a feeling whoever gets halladay will have to deal with the other team getting lackey/felix/jj/ or verlander so pick you’re poison. who would you rather have out of these options:
1halladay
2verlander
3josh johnson
4king felix
5lackey
in the same sense, who would you want to NOT have to see on the other team? personally i dont think either felix or verlander will move but ive seen stranger things so i’d have to say that even though jj has more stuff/potential than halladay, doc has proved he can beat the all of the A.L. teams, so i’d say go get doc… at the right price though!
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Josh Johnson has a bad athlete’s body…I don’t think it will age well. But Halladay is still in his prime, and because he is not just a thrower, but a top-notch pitcher, I think he’ll be a great one for another 4-5 years. I say get him for anyone but Hughes,Joba, or Montero.
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jeremy Reply:
November 28th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
you know, montero is the only player i would have the biggest issue giving up in a deal because lets face it, posada is clearly not the catcher he once was. now im not saying montero is the next pudge rodriguez defensively but even if he played average to even slightly below average behind the dish, his bat will make up for it, in the same way jorge’s does at times. sure, romine could be very good, but montero’s potential is way to great for me to give up. its not like he’s a 25 year old prospect in low a either, he’s probly going to be in AAA next year as a 21 YEAR OLD!!!! as soon as they feel his defensive abilities are good enough to be considered major league ready, he’ll be in the bigs. i feel hughes has a better chance of being a successful starter than joba, where as joba would PROBABLY be better than hughes in the ‘pen. so toronto probably is thinking “who would you rather have: joba or hughes? cause in my mind, they wont deal montero for doc. comments?
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They will NOT get what they want for Halladay anymore than Twins got what they wanted for Santana.
You don’t need to give up a huge upside player like Montero to get him.Yes, Joba or Hughes with an Austin Jackson and a Kyle Higishioka type prospect.Maybe a Jeremy Bleich or an Ian Kennedy with Joba and Jackson but you do NOT need to give up Montero, Romine or any other super top potential prospects for the right to overpay a 34 year old pitcher who started to show signs this year and who will want huge dollars in an era where teams can’t pay those dollars anymore.Heck you might be able to give them Zach MacAllister, Bleich, Nova or whomever and keep Joba also.
Red Sox might be full of it here, just building up the price for Yankees.They have a lot of money in the pitching staff already.
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