From Ken Davidoff (Newsday):
A quick recap: According to a person in the loop, Matt Holliday’s top choices in free agency are: 1) Yankees; and 2) Mets. The Oklahoma native is apparently not intimidated by New York.As of now, I’d say the Yankees don’t want to make another large purchase like that, in the wake of last winter’s shopping spree – and if they win it all, then the pressure from the yakosphere (trademark Neil Best) to get Holliday should alleviate.
Matt Holliday, like Mark Teixeira, really is a good fit for the Yankees. Whereas the Jason Bay’s offense has likely peaked this season (he’ll be 32 next season), Matt Holliday, at 29, has yet to reach that mark.
This year, his numbers in Oakland were very good (.286/.378/.454) despite a miserable April (.240/.288/.360)—he was probably getting used to AL baseball and his new team—and once he returned to the NL, where the pitching was once again familiar, his stats were off the charts. He hit .353/.419/.604 in 63 games with St. Louis. That doesn’t mean he’s just an NL player, rather, it proves what “knowing pitchers” can do for your overall numbers.
Add Holliday’s exceptional defense—he’s 7.4 runs above average, range-wise—to his offensive talent and, on the season, you have a complete player, one that’s worth 5.6 WAR. If he were on the Yankees this year, he would be the 3rd best player on the team, behind only Derek Jeter and CC Sabathia (according to WAR). Furthermore, given his mixture of speed (14 SB), power and patience, he would be an excellent number 2 hitter for the Yankees (sorry, Johnny).
If Cashman and co. intend on adding another player to man left field for them, Matt Holliday is certainly the best choice. Whether he’s the most viable option, financially, though, has yet to be seen. Scott Boras is Holliday’s agent and is always looking for a massive payday. But, the Holliday family really seems to like the idea of their son in pinstripes, so perhaps that will factor into the negotiations and allow the Yankees to reel in another prized free agent this winter.
Photo by Dilip Vishwanat/Getty Images
Related posts:
You can also attribute Holliday’s slow start to going from a home ball park that was very hitter and Homer friendly to a large park that is a very pitcher friendly environment.
I don’t think Holliday would hit 2 in the batting order because I think Damon would be brought back as the DH either way and they would make Holliday the 5th hole hitter and give protection to Alex, it’s not like it would be a new role for him he hit 5th protecting Pujols this year so you know he can do it.
I don’t really want his large contract though because of what signing Holliday means we can’t do, among them would be signing Aroldis Chapman and Rich Harden to sure up the starting rotation and depth of the rotation, as well as signing Holliday probably takes away a lot of the ability to go out and sign a guy like Mike Gonzalez or Jose Valverde or even the option of trading for a guy like Street.
I would rather sign a guy like Chone to play LF or go and trade for a guy like Ian Stewart a young guy who won’t cost near as much and is under team control for a while, even a trade for BJ Upton would leave you with more room to maneuver and make other signings to fill holes.
The Yankees this off season are going to have to re-sign Pettitte, bring back Damon or Matsui to DH (one will be back),sign/trade for a set up man or sign a starting pitcher besides Andy for depth in the rotation and if they do sign a guy like Harden to be the 4th starter that still doesn’t mean that they won’t sign a guy like Chapman
Bottom line signing Holliday eliminates Chapman, one of Harden/Pettitte and severely limits resources to bring back Damon or Matsui. Is he worth all that? With the line up we have I don’t think he is, we are a great offense either way I would rather spend that money on getting Hardem, Pettitte, Chapman and seeing what is out there in the pen department and sign or trade for a good enough bat in LF with a good glove.
You could sign Mike Cameron for a year or two to serve as a stop gap until Austin Jackson gets called up and Gardner or him moves to LF while the other sticks in CF.
I would have no problem going into next year with this team…
2010 Line Up
SS Derek Jeter
DH Johnny Damon
1B Tex
3B Arod
C Jorge Posada
2B Robinson Cano
RF Nick Swisher
LF Mike Cameron
CF Brett Gardner
Bench
Melky Cabrera
Frankie Cervelli
Ramiro Pena
Eric Hinke
2010 Rotation
CC Sabathia
AJ Burnett
Andy Pettitte
Rich Harden
Joba Chamberlain/Phil Hughes
Triple A
Phil Hughes/Joba Chamberlain
Ian Kennedy
Zach McAllister
Ivan Nova
Aroldis Chapman
Spot Starters
Mitre
Gaudin
Aceves
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Actually this is exactly what I hope the Yankees will do this off season, it takes care of every hole, it will be cost effective and allow us to lower the payroll or keep it right around the same as it is and we have depth and the ability to win while letting Joba and Hughes focus on developing themselves to be great starters.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Chris H. Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
I wouldn’t be against adding Cameron. He’s a good player.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
and more importantly cost effective… He will give you much improved D in LF with more than enough of a bat to fit in with this team for 2 year (not to mention CC loves him supposedly so he fits with chemistry) and he is a perfect gap stop for 2 years until a full decision on Jackson can be made. Not to mention the Yankees have been trying to land Cameron since the Sheffield trade talks with the Mets.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Why don’t we buy Lackey and Bay while we’re at it? Not enough that we have the most expensive team in history, and an IF that costs more than half the NL West, let’s toss together the most expensive rotation and OF too?
We got our toys last season, and the results are (so far) the best record in baseball and a 90% likelihood of going to the World Series. At the end of the season, we will probably lose an overpriced DH, an OF who played for a week, and maybe a starter who almost single handedly wrecked the team in April. There are no glaring weaknesses to fill, and what small holes we have can likely be filled with AJax, Hughes, Kennedy, Nova or McCallister.
Rather than commit long term to a player we don’t need, I’d rather let the season play out, see what real needs arise, and fill them via trades.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Steve S. Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
That’s my knee jerk reaction as well, but signing Holliday would actually lower payroll going forward. He’s replacing Matsui and Damon, both of whom make 13 mil per season. Figure Holliday gets Tex money @19 per, that’s still 7 mil off the books.
I just don’t love Holliday as a player or as a long term fit for this club, so I would have 3 or 4 other options I would prefer to do before I ever get to him.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
You aren’t replacing both Damon and Matsui because Holliday isn’t a DH and Damon or Matsui would come back to be the DH so you have to sign Holliday and one of those two making it cost to much…
I disagree with Misterd though I don’t think the wholes we have can be filled by Austin Jackson who needs at least a half a year and probably the whole year in Scranton before he will even be worthy of a roster spot. I also don’t trust going into next season with 3 rotation spots given to Kennedy, Joba and Hughes… We need at least one starter so those guys don’t HAVE to be our starters, we couldn’t send Joba to triple A this year because we couldn’t afford to send him down with our rotation.
Harden, Chapman and Pettitte are all guys who should be brought in and I would look at Mike Gozalez and Jose Valverde to see if they could be the set up man we are missing.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
misterd Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
AJax may be a half-year to a year away with his bat, no question. However, you won’t find many OF signing half year-1 year deals. AJax may notcome up to be full time, but with Damon, Gardner, Melky, Swish, AJax – maybe bring back Hinske – we can have some effective platoons. We need to get over linking production with fielding position – so long as our IF is what it is, we will have more than enough offense to make up for an under-hitting OF. This is obviously not a long term solution, but in a year Damon will be gone, and we’ll have a better idea what to expect from AJax.
For pitching, I am assuming Pettite does not retire. Hughes/Kennedy/Nova/McCallister, maybe Wang, would compete for the #5 slot. If Gaudin or Mitre still under contract, they would factor in as well.
We definately make a play for Chapman, but I wouldn’t count on him for 2010.
As for other players, if we can get players who will be inexpensive (in Yankee terms) and short term, fine. But no Lackeys, Hollidays or Bays. They are the shiny toys that look good in the store, but we don’t really need, and will tie up resources in the future when we have real needs to address.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Chris H. Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
“Why don’t we buy Lackey and Bay while we’re at it?”
Because we don’t need Lackey and Bay isn’t a good choice.
I know you’re being sarcastic, but still. I’m just saying!
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
“Why don’t we buy Lackey and Bay while we’re at it?”
Because you could get Harden and Cameron for a lot cheaper…
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
I’m in the camp that would prefer to pass. Sign Damon or Matsui to a 1 year deal and see who’s available in 2011.
But there’s just one problem with that. The 2011 FA list.
Left fielders
Eric Byrnes (35)
David DeJesus (31) – $6MM club option with a $500K buyout
Adam Dunn (31)
Willie Harris (33)
Jason Kubel (29) – $5.25MM club option with a $350K buyout
Marcus Thames (34)
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/09/2011-mlb-free-agents.html
-Do I love Matt Holiday? No, a long term contract for him screams Giambi part 2 to me, though in a less important position in the field. If you think a few years down the road, we’ll have A-Rod, Jeter and possibly still Posada taking AB’s at DH so Holliday makes even less sense as you go forward.
-Can we afford to wait for A-Jax? No, that train may never arrive.
-Could Melky be our everyday LF with Gardner in CF? Yes, but that’s a weak OF offensively. Our infield production makes up for it, but you’d like to do better.
Considering everything, my first choice would be to call Stu Sternberg and see how he feels about trading Crawford within the division. I also kick the tires on Jeter moving positions.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Why Crawford? You could have Upton for way less prospects and way less money and Upton can play CF with a gold glove and you simply move Gardner to LF and with Melky the 4th outfielder and defensive replacement for Swisher at times we would have one of the most athletic late inning outfields in baseball Gardner LF, Upton CF and Melky RF.
2011 is a worse FA class true but if you sign Mike Cameron this offseason to play LF and hit 8th you get 20 HRs and a 2 year stop gap for either a 2012 FA LFer or by that time Austin Jackson will be ready to play everyday, that is the move that makes the most sense and costs the least.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
I think the Yankees could add Holliday for less money than Teixeira (annually). He’s not a switch-hitter and Teixeira proved himself in both leagues. I’d put Holliday at $17 million per and then if you sign Matsui or Damon for $7-9 million, that’s really not that bad. They will have to pay Pettitte more guaranteed money, though, which could hamstring them. It’ll be a tough fit and I think they could bring him into the fold, but if his financial demands are too much than the Yanks will have to pass.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
The question becomes though why? Why give Holliday 17 when you could get Damon and Cameron for less than that and take care of both LF and DH and still have the abiltity to sign Chapman, bring back Pettitte and make an offer to Harden to try and keep him away from the Red Sox. With all that done you would still have the abiltity to weigh how you feel about the pen and look at trading for someone or signing Valverde or Gonzalez. It upgrades the team by far and away and it doesn’t cost near as much as Holliday for a better team than the one you would have with just him Damon and a questionable Pettitte.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Chris H. Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
Because Holliday is a proven, elite player. Damon, at 37, probably won’t give you the same offense he gave you in ‘09, which was largely the product of Yankee Stadium. Cameron isn’t getting any younger either (he’ll be 37, too). If you sign Cameron as a “stop-gap,” you’re assuming that he’s bridging the gap to something—Austin Jackson. However, Austin Jackson has not proven himself yet. He’s merely a prospect with a lot of potential. I would sign Holliday before adding any relief pitchers (we don’t need any), Chapman (he’s nothing but potential at this point—why sacrifice what happens next year for this kid), or Harden (who struggled in the NL and only uses 2 pitches because he’s scared of injuring himself).
If you think about it, the Yankees will renegotiate with Jeter, so he’ll earn less after 2010 when they resign him. Then, after 2010, A-Rod’s contract starts decreasing annually. Rivera is gone after next year (or they’ll resign him for less than $15 million per). The Yankees will end up saving a good amount of money oer the next few years, so they can afford to spend on a premier player, even after last winter’s spree.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
A stop gap is simply a bridge to anything as opposed to nothing… You bring in Cameron who can play perfectly fine at his age both with the bat and his glove and if Jackson isn’t the answer at the end of his 1 or 2 year deal then you make a trade (if it’s 2011) or you sign an OFer (if it’s 2012).
Signing Holliday makes Jackson impossible to bring up at any point and pretty much ensures he never plays with New York and ends up a piece in some trade.
We do need at least one relief pitcher or did you forget what happened when Hughes wasn’t in the 8th? I don’t trust Robertson to be the every day 8th inning guy, he walks way to many and you never know if the league will completely catch up to that “late movement” on his 91 MPH fastball.
Chapman is nothing but potential but why would you not want someone like that for the future over an overrated LFer who made the biggest error of the year for any team in the playoffs against a clearly inferior team, do that in New York and prepare for the merciless boo birds! Harden is a dominate pitcher when he is right and you will need at least one starting pitcher going into next year.
HOLLIDAY ISN’T WORTH IT! I figured at least you wouldn’t get caught up in this nonsense Chris but I guess I was wrong!
You want one overrated LFer who takes away all options of adding anyone else for what reason? Our offense doesn’t need a big piece like that, what we need is a bull pen pitcher, one starter on top of bringing back Pettitte and a decent glove in LF and if you can get Chapman do so because of his tremendous potential.
The point is why just bring in Holliday when you can bring in a 5 or 6 littler pieces to what is already a championship team! We don’t need that! Damon or Matsui plus the glove of Cameron in LF is more than enough offensively…
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
How does next years bench shape up? Does either Hinske or Hairston get a chance to come back? I think Pena can take over Hairston’s role if that is what the Yankees want but I like the idea of having a big left handed bat off the bench who can play RF, LF, 1B and 3B like Hinske…
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
I agree with the other comments favoring roster flexibility. Another long term contract blocks Ajax and also means one less spot for Montero in case it’s determined that he can’t catch. Resigning Damon at one year avoids that dilemma.
One caveat: The Red Sox will snap up Holliday in a heartbeat in a move somewhat reminiscent of the Yanks signing Teixeira. Holliday, though perhaps not a superstar, is a really, really good all-around player and will be a huge upgrade over Bay in the field
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
If Boston wants Holliday I say let them have him! Picking up a contract like that may limit there other moves as far competing for Harden it may mean they focus more on Ben Sheets, and it may also mean that they stay completely away from the Chapman bidding therefor making the overall price we have to pay a lot less than if he was bidding between us and the Sox.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Tom Gaffney Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
Boston could easily bid on both players. They’ve got a ton of salary flexibility right now. Also, Chapman is not going to break the bank the way the hype is predicting. He has one pitch right now, control issues, and many scouts project him as a reliever. There’s a lot of upside, but it’s all projection and there’s a lot of disagreement over how likely he is to fulfill that potential. I doubt he gets much more than 6 yrs/$40M and even then, he’s probably overvalued and he’ll only get that b/c of his unique situation and a bidding war.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 19th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
That’s not really what I mean, if you are bringing in a guy like Holliday who is overpriced as he is Boston won’t go and get another overpriced pitcher they would instead try and get one of the cheaper guys in the range of Harden, Sheets and Hudson… They just don’t spend over spend on a lot of risk rather they would want to under sign risk.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Kick the tires all you want on moving Jeter, but he’s made it clear he doesn’t want to move, and it’ll be much harder to replace a shortstop than a COF.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Chris H. Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
Yea, Jeter will remain at SS until he can’t play anymore (not play SS, but anymore, period). There’s a reason he spent the offseason improving his defense and that’s so he can play there even when his offense declines.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Then he wont be there “into his 40’s” he will make it to 38-39 before they ask him to retire nicely or change positions/teams if you don’t want to be a Yankee anymore if you can’t be a SS.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
I don’t think he has made that clear at all… He even said he wants to play into his 40’s and it may not all be at SS… to me that sounds like someone preparing to move.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Call me crazy, but I would be willing to sign Matt Holliday and use Juan Miranda as my DH. Yes, it’s a gamble. But I’d risk it, especially if it allows them some financial flexibility.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
I would never and I repeat NEVER do that! That ends up being a worse offense than Cameron and Damon/Matsui. I don’t mind Miranda being a bench player but starting DH? You’ve lost your mind! What if he struggles to the tune of 15 HRs and a .240 BA? What if the bright lights do blind Holliday and now you are stuck with an over paid role player who can’t handle being the focus of the negative and he under preforms? Now you have no way of implementing Jackson when and if he ever is ready, you have to rely on CC, AJ and Pettitte to be healthy all year or your screwed and you have to hope the Bruney, Coke and Robertson can lock down the 8th all year and you miss out on a huge potential prospect in Chapman for Holliday… One guy isn’t worth risking everything else.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Chris H. Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
Eh, I think Miranda deserves a shot. He has good numbers and hit righties well this year. You’re eager to promote A-Jax on numbers that aren’t nearly as good. I’d be willing to let him play. I don’t think Holliday will struggle all that much, but I do think you’re right in that we can’t risk a lot on one player. If Holliday can be had at the right price, the Yankees have to go for it. But if not, there are other things to focus on (defense with Cameron is a good idea).
EDIT – And, I repeat, the Yankees aren’t going to spend money on a reliever. They’ll find an 8th inning guy from within. They did it this year and will figure something out for next year.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Then I don’t want you running my team and I’m glad you’ll never get a chance too!
I am not eager to promote Jackson, I guess you can’t read now huh? I have said repeatedly that Jackson shouldn’t be called up all next year unless it’s as a September call up and he probably wont be ready to start until he has had a year on the major league level… I really don’t like it when someone tries to put words in my mouth like that especially when they don’t even have half the story.
I don’t like Miranda or Jackson to start next year, I don’t want Miranda as anything but a pinch hitter against right handers and only if we don’t re-sign Hinske who would be a better contributor.
I see Holliday as a huge free agent bust who’s numbers will never reach that of the contract!
the Yankees don’t have to spend money on a FA reliever… but if they are going to trade for someone they need money room to have maneuvers available. Currently on the roster there is no one who will be a good 8th inning guy and without adding someone through trade we are going to lose guys like Nova to the rule V draft.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Old Ranger Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
I saw Miranda hit a lot better this year against leftys, he may be ok as DH. If he has trouble, so be it, send him back down and get someone else or go by whom ever needs a day off (not the best way).
If one worries to much about what could go wrong, nothing will get done…let’s be more optimistic shall we. Who knows, we may end up with Holliday, Hardin and Chapman. If one is to worry, do so about Chapman, a very unknown quantity.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Chris H. Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
I agree, OR. We’re all about promoting from within yet when someone offers a name that isn’t A-Jax or Montero, we get scared. If people want to start saving and seeing younger players in the lineup, the Yankees have to be faithful in their homegrown products. If Miranda continues to hit lefties next season, how can he not be the team’s DH going forward (in 2011, at least).
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Ranger that doesn’t make sense! If you act like nothing is wrong and we can win without signing or re-singing anyone as you are then nothing will get done! This team is good but it has holes and some big ones that will be even bigger next year… The biggest problem with all of your thinking is that you are penciling AJ and Andy for 32 starts each next year, what if one or both gets hurt?
Ranger did you actually go to games and see him hit lefties better or did you read his stats?
Also just because he started to hit triple A lefties better doesn’t necessarily translates to the MLB.
Becuase he isn’t good enough to .290 and hit 25+ HRs that’s why Chris! You can’t ask a guy who never even started more than one game in September to be a starting DH and your back up plan is if he fails who gives a shit… What just trade for someone? Well at that point we will have lost pieces in the Rule V and your assuming someone will be available at that point… It doesn’t make sense to look at problems and then just assume all the players in our system can fix it! Everyone overrates there own prospects but you guys are going to a new level here…
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Bench
Melky Cabrera
Frankie Cervelli
Ramiro Pena
Eric Hinke
That’s ok with me, but please, NO Cameron.
I still think one of BJ/CF or Crawford/LF is doable, Tampa has hinted at not picking up Crawfords option. As for DH, if we resign anyone of the two (Johnny/Matsui) I would take Matsui he can hit leftys and Johnny has trouble with them. Along with that Matsui’s knees should be in better shape next year so he can play the OF once in a while, so can Pena and Hinke.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
BS! I call BS on Tampa hinting they won’t pick up Crawford’s option! They traded Kazmir to pick up his option guaranteed! BJ Upton is the one who will cost less, is younger and has more potential but you would have to be OK with a starting package of Jackson, McAllister and probably a Robertson type.
I actually doubt Matsui ever goes out into the field again, if he could have it would have been done! At this point Girardi is scared of even letting him out on the field to play, he has had knee surgery on both knees and has a high risk of re injury. With that said I have no problem with Matsui over Damon if that is what they want to do.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
When he says “I’m a shortstop” in these conversations, it doesn’t sound like he’s very open to moving righ now.And I don’t think he worked his ass of in the 2008-9 offseason to improve his SS defese just so he could move to left in 2010. He’s going to need one full, poor season at short before the Yanks move him, which means 2011 at the very earliest, more likely 2012-2013.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Chris H. Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Totally agree, misterd. And Jeter was one of the best SS in baseball, defensively, in ‘09. He’s not moving anytime soon, barring a dramatic re-decline in his fielding skills.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
Just because he worked out it doesn’t mean his range is getting better you do realize that right? He did better this year because he set himself up in better positions to field balls as most good veteran SS do, his range didn’t improve his IQ did… He worked hard on fielding but that won’t keep working forever… He can a SS until 38 or so probably but he won’t be a 40 year old starting SS for the New York Yankees guaranteed!
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Holliday is a good player but is he an elite player who can be a game breaker and singly handedly carry a team like a Pujols or Arod… The answer is no! I would take any stop gap player in LF for 2 years with a good glove in order to be able to dip my toe in the other areas of free agent market. Chapman is a player who should be looked at and worked out, Harden should at least be courted and talked too, Pettitte will want a little more guaranteed money after this year, Damon or Matsui needs to come back, either Hinske needs to be re-sign or another bench guy does and there is nothing wrong with finding another bullpen piece.
I didn’t want to trade for Holliday a year ago and I didn’t like the idea of signing him this offseason then either, the guy doesn’t seem like a bright lights star, he seems like the type of guy who dissapears and cracks under pressure.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Chris H. Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
All Holliday has done since he came up to the Majors is carry his team. He did it in Colorado and, while he didn’t do the greatest job in Oakland, he had more RBI’s in the second half than Albert Pujols did (he had more RBI’s as a Cardinal in 55 games than Pujols did in the second half). I don’t understand what your proof is for saying he has never carried a team when all evidence points to you being wrong.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
He never carried his team… He was one of the guys on a good Rockies offense with the park increasing his numbers… He went to Oakland and struggled mightily… Answer me this, how do you carry a team with Pujols on it? In fact you can’t carry team with Pujols on it because motherfucking Albert Pujols is the star of the team and you are just another one of the guys no matter what his stats are. In truth the only time he was asked to be the offense of a team was with the A’s and he failed!
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Chris H. Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
The park did increase his numbers, but the home-away splits are greatly exaggerated. Coors made an elite player even more elite. And, if Yankee Stadium is actually a hitter’s park, that’s a good thing for him, right? Also, in every month he was with the A’s, his numbers got better and better. If you base a player’s abilities on his limited time with a new team and in a new league, that’s not fair for the player. That’s like saying Swisher sucks because he sucked last year with the White Sox (when in reality he was with a new team, etc.).
Haha, the Pujols comment is true. You don’t have to carry a team with Pujols in it. But, while many people won’t admit it, Holliday was a better player in the second half than Pujols was. That’s saying something.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
He’s not “elite” to me thoug…His best year on that team was 2007 and guess who also had a great year that year… Todd Helton, to me he has never been “The guy” on his team someone else always was except for Oakland who got him to be “the guy” and it didn’t work at all! He wouldn’t have to be the guy on our team either but only someone who is a top top elite hitter should get that contract especially in this economy and Holliday isn’t worth it! I will be really disappointed in this team if we get an overrated commodity like that when you could spread that money around to role players to do his job and more.
I really wouldn’t but Swisher struggling because he was on a new team last year, that’s a cop out… He was on a new team this year and did just fine, and he went from the AL to the AL so there was no new pitchers to learn either so it’s no where near the same thing… He had a bad year with the White Sox because he was mishandled…
That’s true but with the monster year Pujols had everyone was focusing on him and walking him to get to Holliday and if you look at Matt’s numbers down the stretch when Pujols was really struggling and they were walking him to get to Holliday Matt went into a big slump that carried over into the playoffs where he barley hit and made the biggest error of the year.
He just isn’t worth the money… If we were talking 12 million then you would have to consider it for sure but 17 million+ per year? No way!
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
Career splits for Holliday have him hitting .357 in Coors which is by far the highest batting average he has at any stadium that he has 100+ at bats in… He also benefited everywhere he went from players of a high caliber already being on the team therefor he never had to worry about being the face of the franchise except Oakland where he hit .286 in 168 ABs in the Coliseum.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
No disagreement here. But we’re talking next season, not 2013, and so there really is no choice but to table the “Jeter Talk” for the time being.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 18th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
I agree with you there… I have no problem with Jeter playing SS for a few more years but it’s going to reach a point where positioning yourself in the right spot will no longer make up for your actual range slowing down.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
“you have a complete player, one that’s worth 5.6 WAR. If he were on the Yankees this year, he would be the 3rd best player on the team, behind only Derek Jeter and CC Sabathia (according to WAR)”.
I am sorry but I don’t care what stats say on this one Holliday this year would not have been a better or more important player on this team than Arod or Tex or Mariano Rivera… I think WAR is a little overrated and there is no way I would say Holliday is after Jeter and Sabs.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
I’d sign Holliday for 5/85.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 19th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
17 million is just to much for an above average talent who plays like an above average but not super star player… He isn’t Alex and he isn’t Tex!
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Here is what is going to happen next year for the yankees:
Outfield
Damon – stays as DH and platoon with Garner (LF) and Matsui
Matsui – will stay as DH (primarily) and if his knees hold up next year could see some outfield action
Melky Cabera will share time with Brett Gardner in CF
Yankees are not going to sign anyone because they have Jackson, Duncan, Gardner, Freddy..all youngsters ready to patrol the outfield at a price that is affordable
Pitching:
Yankees will sign Petite to another 1 year contract
Yankees will continue to groom Joba and Phil (ultimately, Phil will start and Joba will be the successor to Rivera
Young group of pitchers will continued to be groomed, although I highly suspect Bruney will get traded
In 2011, the Yankees will sign and or trade for Jake Peavy because his contract will end with Chisox then. Yankees will have enough information on how well he adjust in AL.
Wang will pitch out of the bullpen next year and get spot starts towards the latter part of the season. He will spend a lot of time in the minors to regain strength and they will not rush him
2011 pitching will be CC, AJ, Peavy, Hughes, Wang
2010 pitching will be CC, AJ, Petite, Hughes, Joba (David Robertson will take over for Hughes in the pen)
I do not see them spending money on over priced free agents and furthermore they have a great chemistry. you don’t make changes to a successful team
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
October 19th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
No chance in hell they bring back both Damon and Matsui and Hideki can’t play the outfield anymore! On top of that Gardner has never played LF so he should either play it everyday to get good at it or not play there at all! Guzman is not a “youngster” and has no potential with his bat and will be lucky to be on the team next year, and Jackson is no where near major league ready and won’t be for a year. There is so much more wrong with this I don’t know where to start, this will never happen ever!
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The Yanks should use Shone Figgins as that Bridge instead of Cameron. He is alot younger and is had a GREAT regular season for L.A.
harden should be the 4th starter if they resign Pettite and 3rd if they dont. Jackson and Miranda should stay in the Minors for at least another year.
I personally like Mike Gonzalez and think he should be considered by the Yankees.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
November 12th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
As a 3rd baseman! Chone has almost no experience at LF and hasn’t played the outfield in a few years and not only that he will require at least 10 million a year for at least 3 probably 4 years… Cameron on the other hand will be 1 or 2 years mac and for 6-8 million max. HE is a much better bridge, with Chone you are setting him up to be the LFer for the next 3-5 years and he has no recent experience there at all! Much more of a gamble… Not to mention he didn’t hit well at all in the playoffs against either Boston or the Yankees and his career numbers against Boston aren’t good.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Billy Reply:
November 13th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Well since he will be on the Yanks that will eliminate one of those teams and A.Rod has struggled in the postseason and he has been good in the regular season. Everyone struggles at some time. And they probably could get Figgins for around 8 Mil. too. Maybe the Yankees coaches might find the problem he has against boston cause they play there a lot and are probably very familiar w/ common problems if that is his case. Cameron would be there for probably 2 yrs. If we could get Chone for 3 yrs and 8 mil. i think we should take.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
November 13th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
You won’t get Chone for 8, the guy is making 10 now why would he take a pay cut to come to another team when he could make more with the Angels and stay where he really wants to be. Not to mention you completely skip the fact that he might not be able to adjust to LF that well and then you have an overpaid utility player around, unless Arod slots at everyday DH, it’s a big IF but it’s also a big IF he can actually play the position well.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
where did you find that he was getting paid 10 where i my source said he was getting paid 5
and he can play alot of pos so he could go almost anywhere the Yanks needed him to give other players some rest and i am pretty sure he wouldnt have much trouble playing LF
we could even get him if he wanted more money we have WAY to much already so why not spend it on a better cause
i dont see any reason why the Yanks should save a couple million dollars on a guy that is not the best at hitting(cameron) instead of going for a better hitter(figgins).they have the most money so why not put it to good use
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
November 13th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
I read the article wrong you are right, it was 10 overall and 5.57 this year… My bad…
Since he is making 5 he should want an increase to 10-12 million a year with his kind of production over the last few seasons leading off and Mike Cameron is 6-8 max on a 1 year deal.
Why would you just give someone a lot of money to play a position he has never played?
Because hitting is not the point Billy, fielding is, it is way more important to upgrade our defense because our offense is already so good. Cameron will hit .250 and have 24+ HRs next year which is plenty fine for hitting 9th in our lineup, he is an upgrade from Melky’s bat last year at 9th.
Cameron can play gold glove D in CF or LF at max Chone can play average D in LF, Chone can’t hit HRs and he is weak from the right side, he won’t hit leadoff so he won’t be as valuable to us as he was the Angels and we don’t steal that much in front of Tex so he would be limited to 30-40 steals a year so his value goes down, if he doesn’t play excellent D it’s not worth and you can’t guarantee he will even play average D. While Cameron will play well above average and will only need a 1 or 2 year deal max… Chone wants 3-4 and he want to stay in LAA at all costs from what you read.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
But if we dont bring damon back we need a #2 hitter.Who would fit that?
Figgins would be able to bat 2nd and maybe even move Jeter back to his original 2nd and have Figgins bat leadoff, that might be a possibility.
And almost anyone is an upgrade from Damon right Chris?
If you cant get Chone then go back to Damon. Why are you guys saying the Yankees want to get younger and saying they should get Cameron when he is the same age is Damon? I just dont get that. Damon can give you close to average D and better offense then Cameron.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
November 14th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Robinson Cano always has been the perfect fit for the number 2 hitter in a lineup… He makes contact, he doesn’t strike out and he’s left handed so when Jeter gets on it opens up a hole on both sides of the diamond for Cano’s ground balls to get through and Cano hits with as much power as Damon if not more and it will hit well above .300 which is something Damon doesn’t do anymore.
Jeter won’t go back to the 2 hole because he grounds into way to many double plays, the guy had 18 this year and he lead off every game with no one base guaranteed!
That doesn’t make sense Billy, you can’t get one weak LF defender you have to get the worse LF defender available? You don’t need Damon’s bat in this lineup if you re-sign Matsui to DH and with Cameron hitting over 20 Hrs he makes up for Damon’s power leaving lineup, but since Cameron is way way better defender with a much stronger arm he will save runs from scoring in LF and that will make up for the batting average difference between Cameron and Damon.
Close to average D? You haven’t watched Damon a you don’t know the stats…! It doesn’t matter age it matters abiltity and Damon has no legs, takes bad routes to balls, has a weak arm and can’t catch balls (he dropped at least 5 balls this year that I saw) and he is only getting worse and slower.
Cameron is a way above average defender in CF this year and was statistically a better CFer than Gardner and Melky combined for us this year… So not only is he better than Damon in LF he can also play CF and have Melky play LF at times as well.
Damon is one of the 5 worst LFers in the game of baseball right now and you can’t doubt that, Cameron is a top 5 CFer this in the AL, the decision is simple Damon’s offense doesn’t mean anything when he can’t field and Cameron is more valuable over all because of his D and power combined.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
November 14th, 2009 at 11:01 pm
Look at it this way, they both hit 24 HRs and Damon got 17 of those at home and all to the short RF porch and anywhere else he won’t put up the same numbers. Cameron hit 24 14 at home and 10 on the road which is a much more even split and is a lot more telling of real power.
Cameron hit .250 while Damon hit .282 the difference in that is so small that Cameron’s superiority in defense tips the scales in Cameron’s favor because he takes away as many hits as Damon gets over Cameron which equals out the average.
Cameron 70 RBI on a less than stellar team and Damon had 82 on the best offense team in baseball in some time.
12 stolen bases for Damon and 7 for Cameron…
All these stats are so close offensively that Cameron’s D makes up for the minor offensive differences, Damon gives up runs in the outfield and Cameron takes them away. It’s clear who should go and who should come to NY… Cameron has more real power and will be the better asset to the team overall!
After all that Damon still wants 12 million a year and 3-4 years while Cameron will take 5-8 million for 1 year.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
becca Reply:
November 15th, 2009 at 12:24 am
As far as Cano being a perfect two-spot guy because Jeter won’t be because he grounded into too many double plays, Cano grounded into more double plays than Jeter this year (22 vs. 18… though I realize that might be slightly unfair to Cano because Jeet bats leadoff at least once per game with the bases empty).
“Damon’s offense doesn’t mean anything when he can’t field”
I agree Damon’s fielding is awful to the point of near comedy but uh… are you going to give up what he did for us this year offensively just because he was a bad fielder?
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
November 15th, 2009 at 1:18 am
Exactly it’s 18 to 22 and Cano is hitting with much slower guys in front of him IE Posada, Matsui and Swisher which also means they are less likely to get to 2nd and help break up the DP. Jeter gets most of his ABs with no one on base hitting leadoff! When Melky leads off an inning and doesn’t get on Jeter is up with no one on and leadoff hitters lead off the 3rd and 6th innings with no on a lot as well. Cano had more at bats with a runner on first than Jeter did this year so it makes sense that he would have more… The fact that Jeter had 18 leading off proves how many he hits into but that’s not why Cano should hit 2nd over Jeter.
Cano is a perfect 2 hole hitter and not because Jeter hits double plays but because he fits the spot in the lineup. Cano has power not so much that he should hit in the heart of the order 4-5 where driving in runs is key, instead you give him the chance to succeed to get on in front of the big bats… Cano doesn’t strike out often, he is the definition of a contact hitter who can go to all fields which is exactly what you need in a 2 hole hitter.
Cano has been destined to takes over that spot in the lineup for years but it never came available… Jeter doesn’t hit as many HRs as Cano and grounds into more DPs, Jeter should stay where he was successful and Cano moving up will help him out as well. Just look at the top of the lineup…
Jeter, SS
Cano, 2B
Tex, 1B
Arod, 3B
Posada, C
Damon’s offense isn’t good enough to make up for his O! When you give up 10 runs you have to score 10 just to break even so yes I am based off the fact that Cameron can also give 24+ HRs with better D… and what makes you think he will repeat the same production? Especially if they raise the outfield wall and the park doesn’t play as homer friendly?
When you are that bad defensively it makes your offense mean less so you have to doubt the production of someone who if a better defender than you.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
becca Reply:
November 15th, 2009 at 2:02 am
“Damon’s offense isn’t good enough to make up for his O! When you give up 10 runs you have to score 10 just to break even so yes I am based off the fact that Cameron can also give 24+ HRs with better D… and what makes you think he will repeat the same production? Especially if they raise the outfield wall and the park doesn’t play as homer friendly?
When you are that bad defensively it makes your offense mean less so you have to doubt the production of someone who if a better defender than you.”
Like I said, his defense is at times comically bad, but discounting Damon’s usefulness is silly. In Game 4 of the World Series early on I wanted to strangle him because of his poor defense, but without his approach to that at-bat against Lidge and his baseball smarts (Damon… smarts… whuh? But it’s true.) that let him have that double steal, I seriously doubt we win that game. It’s a little like the Posada/Molina debate, though the difference between Posada and Molina offensively is greater than the difference between Damon and Cameron offensively.
Also, if you’re gonna say there’s no guarantee Damon will repeat his production, I agree, but that’s the case with pretty much everyone (and Cameron). After the decidedly down 2008 Jeter had, I wouldn’t have thought he would have the great 2009 he did. Maybe Matsui’s knees will start affecting his production, too. Who knows.
as far as Damon’s home runs, weren’t a lot of them to the upper deck IIRC? So, not really cheapies.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
November 15th, 2009 at 2:19 am
If Damon catches the ball Ibanez hits while Howard is on 2nd base which a good LFer would have then you never have to score a game winning run off of Lidge because Howard wouldn’t have scored so the game wouldn’t have been tied…. That is what I am talking about… I am not discounting Damon’s usefulness but what I am saying is his good plays have their value taken away when he makes bad plays and lets runs score from the outfield.
Not only should Damon have caught that ball if he hadn’t caught it should have still either been able to throw him out or keep him at 3rd and he couldn’t do any of the 3 and Howard scored!
It’s not even close to the Molina-Posada debate… Posada’s numbers aren’t based upon the stadium and neither one was being chosen for a contract… Cameron will make 5-8 million this year to hit the same amount of HRs and play much better defense! Damon want’s 3-4 years and 12 million+ a year, which is the smarter buy?
That’s not true… Damon’s offense is completely reliant upon the stadium and Cameron’s clearly isn’t…. The Brewers have a much bigger stadium than we do and Mike still had 24 HRs… Damon had 17 Hrs at home and 7 on the road, all 24 of his Hrs this year went to RF… That doesn’t strike you as odd?
Actually no! No one has actually reached the top deck in this stadium, Damon had a lot of middle row shots but none to the top! For sure he had some bombs but by his own account he said the stadium was giving him HRs.. He said so in several different interviews during the year… I saw countless barley scrape over the wall that wouldn’t have been HRs anywhere else…
Cameron is much more reliable than Damon… Damon had 24 HRs this year which tied a career high for him he only had 1 other time in his career, Cameron on the other hand has always been a 20+ HR guy and because of that you can count on his O more than Damon’s. Plus Cameron’s offensive numbers play more for every park which means he actually hits on the road as well…Damon ’s offense always fades towards the end of the year anyway it’s one reason he didn’t hit in the playoffs at all until the WS.
Matsui’s knees could affect his production and it’s one reason I wouldn’t want to re-sign him, but he will be playing DH and will come cheaper than any other DH on the market will so it’s worth the risk. With Damon you are counting on him to once again hit at least his career high and I personally don’t want to take that risk, it’s much better to cut Damon lose a year early instead of signing him to a 2-4 year deal and cutting him lose a 1-3 years to late!
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
November 15th, 2009 at 2:25 am
What would you rather have? 24 HRs, 80+ RBI with a .250-.260 BA and above average defense from Cameron for 1 year 5-8 million or 24 Hrs, 80+ RBI with a .270-.280 BA and well below average D from Damon for 2-4 years for 12 million a year?
The choice is simple really… There should be no debate with this, we already have a great offense we should be trying to upgrade our D and finding a 4th starter… Cameron upgrades your defense, if anything brings more real power to the team and at half the cost of Damon which will give you more money to find a 4th starter with.
I don’t know how to make it more simple really… No Damon!
(Quote)
becca Reply:
November 15th, 2009 at 2:43 am
“Actually no! No one has actually reached the top deck in this stadium, Damon had a lot of middle row shots but none to the top! For sure he had some bombs but by his own account he said the stadium was giving him HRs.. He said so in several different interviews during the year… I saw countless barley scrape over the wall that wouldn’t have been HRs anywhere else…”
I did mean the middle row deck, my bad. And Yankee Stadium gave everyone home runs, Yankees and their opponents alike. Damon’s offense is “completely” reliant upon the Stadium because he has more home runs there? Is Swisher completely reliant on being on the road?
“he didn’t hit in the playoffs at all until the WS.”
He was miserable in the ALDS but quite good in the ALCS IIRC.
I’m not sure why I’m arguing this considering I don’t think Damon is like an essential or anything. I just feel like you’re making unfair assumptions. And I think anyone that signs with the Yankees as a FA is gonna want more than $8M…
(Quote)
Johnny Damon in LF .978 fielding percentage… UZR -9.2, RngR -3.7
Mike Cameron in CF .990 fielding percentage… UZR 10.0, RngR 14.7
Cameron is 14.7 runs above average in RngR while Damon is 3.7 runs below average…
RngR is the the number of runs above or below average a fielder is, determined by how the fielder is able to get to balls hit in his vicinity just in case you weren’t stat people.
In other words he sucks at D and Cameron is actually good at D.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
You don’t have to keep quoting, you can press reply…
Everyone agrees that Damon’s HRs are completely reliant on Yankee stadium… And actually Nick is hurt by Yankee stadium some because his swing isn’t meant for RF from either side of the plate, he hits most of his HRs to LF or LF Center and that is the hardest part of Yankee stadium to Homer too because of wind and depth…
You still aren’t getting it… Damon only hit his HRs to RF this year, not 1 to CF and not 1 to LF all 24 went to RF… 17 of those 24 went to RF in Yankee stadium even though Damon had a higher BA on the road… He can’t hit HRs as well on the road because they don’t have a short porch.
Cameron isn’t going to command more 8 million from anyone… Why would ask for more than anyone else is offering to be on a winning team? If anything he would take less to be with the defending champs but he won’t have to. He made 10 million this year with the Brewers but they replaced him so his own team won’t be bidding on him and in this economy he won’t make the 10 million he did this year, 8 is perfect and no other teams will be offering anything more than 1 year either so we pretty much have him where we want him.
Think about it, Damon made 12 million this year and the Yankees don’t want to pay him that, baseball players aren’t making the money they once did, 8 million is exactly what Cameron will command to play for a team like the Rangers but he will have the best chance to win with us over the other teams that want him… Plus he likes NY and played for the Mets before.
Not to mention the Yankees have been after Cameron for years because of his D, which as you can see from the numbers below are still great…
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
The other Chris H Reply:
November 15th, 2009 at 2:55 am
Cameron has made 7 million every year since 2004 when he made 4 million, this year he was in his last year of a deal that gave him 10 million the last year only… He is set to take a pay decrease now that he is older and needing a new contract making the appropriate number for Cameron anywhere between 5-8 million per year.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Billy Reply:
November 15th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
I am starting to see why we should pick someone other than Damon. But Cameron? Why not consider trading for Crawford or Upton. Marlon Byrd is also out there. Reed Johnson could be another possibility.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]
Billy Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Scratch that Marlon Byrd and Reed Johnson are not the best options. But we could resign Xavier Nady and move either him or Swisher to left.
(Quote)
[Reply To This Comment]