With Phil Hughes having stepped into perhaps the biggest shoes in Baseball over the past few days (and doing so flawlessly) I wanted to take a minute to compare what Hughes has done this year as a reliever to what Joba Chamberlain did working in the bullpen in 07. You don’t hear as much starter/reliever debate with him, or anyone making a big deal about the ‘Hughes Rules’ which apply to him every bit as much as the ‘Joba Rules’ did in 07, but Phil Hughes has been just as effective working as a reliever as Joba was. The main difference has been in style. Joba burst on the scene in 2007 with 100 MPH fastballs and screaming fist pumps, wheras Phil Hughes has quietly gone about his business dismantling hitters. I also think the fact that Hughes has been around for a while mutes the impact of what he’s done, and it shouldn’t.
Here’s the numbers:
2007 Joba (as a Reliever)
IP-24 H-12 SO-34 BB-6 ERA-0.38
2009 Phil Hughes (as a Reliever)
IP-40.2 H-22 SO-54 BB-10 ERA-1.11
Joba BB/9 IP was 2.66 per 9 innings pitched
Sir Philip’s BB/9 IP stands at 2.24 per 9 innings pitched.
Joba SO/9 IP was 12.75 per 9 innings pitched
Sir Philip’s SO/9 IP stands at 12.09 per 9 innings pitched.
Its like a Baseball version of a Miss Universe pageant, choose which one suits your fancy the best. It also says a lot about how someone who’s talented enough to be a good starting pitcher can utterly dominate as a reliever, since most relievers are failed starting pitchers. That’s not all that surprising, since many starting pitchers are best their first time through a lineup.
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The numbers you should be comparing are those of Hughes Vs Mariano thorugh the same number of games played as the set up man… Hughes has one more save one less win, the same amount of losses and a lower ERA than Mariano through this point of his career in as the 8th inning guy. This just furthers the idea that Hughes should be at least considered for the forever set up/next closer role and consider signing a guy like Harden in the off season to be the 5th starter, I just think it will be harder to find a good closer to replace Mariano with youth as opposed to a 5th starter.
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The Fallen Phoenix Reply:
September 7th, 2009 at 3:42 am
There’s a reason why Mariano Rivera is paid less than AJ Burnett – good starting pitchers are more valuable than good relief pitchers. Period. Indeed, if you put AJ Burnett, or CC Sabathia, or even Rich Harden in the bullpen, chances are they’d be about as effective as Phil Hughes has been.
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Steve S. Reply:
September 7th, 2009 at 9:48 am
“The numbers you should be comparing are those of Hughes Vs Mariano”
Blasphemy. You are hereby excommunicated from Yankee land.
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The other Chris H Reply:
September 7th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
How? He has better numbers than Mariano as a set up man, did I say he was better? I was showing the reasons behind keeping him a set up man.
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I think those numbers show why Hughes can still be a #1 pitcher. I think next year we’ll see a lot out of both Hughes and Joba as starters that’ll quiet a lot of the BP talk.
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The other Chris H Reply:
September 7th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
If Hughes threw 95 as a starter yes he could be a number 1 type starter but unfortunately (even though others disagree with no proof) Hughes has always averaged a 91 MPH fastball with a spike curve (or knuckle curve) an ok slider and a developing cutter and change and while this will allow him to have a decent pitch selection none of them are dominant pitches when he isn’t a reliever. We have seen Hughes start it’s not like Joba going to the pen where a lot of people hasn’t seen him start we know Hughes is 91 or 92 as a starter with poor location. Phil has poor location in the pen, it’s in the zone but a lot of stuff misses the glove and a good deal of his fastball end up in the middle but he avoids danger because of how hard he is throwing, when he goes back to 91 he won’t be able to do that. Joba has the make up to be a number one starter in my mind and Hughes a 4 so why not make the 4 starter a closer instead, and you can’t argue value because a 4 starter equals the value of a good closer, although when you don’t have a good closer then I am sure the value is much more than that just look at the Rays.
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Yes a starting pitcher can be a good reliever but you need the right mind set to be a closer and I don’t see Phil as a number one pitcher so your comparison of CC or AJ is childish and not even close to realistic… I don’t see Hughes as much more than a number 4 starter maybe a decent 3 but as a closer I see someone who can take over for Mo and allow the Yankees to not go through a 3 or 4 year transition period with no end of the pen.
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what’s going on? ‘Childish’? Is this going to turn into another site where stuff like that is allowed?
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Moshe Mandel Reply:
September 7th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
Childish is relatively tame by commenting standards, but still inappropriate- no reason to go there, TOCH. Lets try and keep it civil, for everybody’s sake.
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The other Chris H Reply:
September 8th, 2009 at 12:38 am
It is childish…. That is taking a real argument that Hughes should be in the pen and coming back with “lets just put CC in the 6th and AJ in the 7th and Pettitte in the 8th and Mo can close bleh”… It’s a childish response when one has no reasoning to defend there beleif, I have given you my reasoning for Hughes not being a great starter and being better in the pen not only can you not defend your belief you don’t even try to and instead come back with a response of a child by taking something completely unreasonable as a defense not to mention he (Hughes) has given us no reason to believe he is even at the level of those guys in the first place. The response was not made to defend and argument or make a counter point to my statement it was “childish”… Sorry if you get offended because you refuse to try and defend your beliefs with thoughts.
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