Sep 092009
Here’s the video. Great moment as Jeter collects his 2,721st hit as a Yankee.
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Love Derek, great Yankee but many, many more of Gehrig’s hits were HR’s and doubles and he must have averaged twice as many ribbys as Jete.
Jete is a great player but Gehrig was one of the best hitters EVER.What did he have, 3 MVP’s hitting AFTER Ruth?
I wish people in America were as interested in CONTEXT as they are in CONTENT.
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Moshe Mandel Reply:
September 9th, 2009 at 11:58 pm
I’m not sure who in America you are criticizing. Everyone knows Gherig was better than Jeter. Jeter just has more hits.
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The other Chris H Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Yeah and the only reason guys like Gherig and Joe D and Mantle didn’t get to 3,000 hits anyay has to do with the combination of injury and the war, had anyone of those guys played longer they would have gotten to 3,000 Gherig easily….. However why would you criticize a guy on the day he passes a great man on the all time Yankee hit list?
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Maybe someone could mention it.Jeter is a singles hitter, Gehrig a power hitter.Apples and oranges and obviously in context, Gehrig’s record are much more meaningful.
The problem in the media and therefore the country is the naked statement that Jeter has broken Lou Gehrig’s hits record, without the BUT, putting it in context, Gehrig was much, much more productive with the same amount of hits in less at bats and with a shortened career due to a life taking incurable disease.
Incidently, I always thought it was an amazing coincidence that Lou Gehrig died of all things, Lou Gehrig’s disease.HA HA.
As for context and AMerica, currently we’re hearing that a new Government run medical plan will bring down costs of medical PER INDIVIDUAL, however nowhere in the Conversation do we hear that the new legislation provides for ANY way to keep illegal immigrants from particiating in such Medical (it is specifcally quiet on illegals) which of course means another 10-20 million will come here for pre-natal care and for free medical, why shouldn’t they if they can’t get it at home?
That’s content without context.It’s rampant in every discussion and why you guys under 40 are dead.
COntent without context allows any discussion to be controlled by the people providing the content and the discussion is over.
Yes, to many, especially the casual YAnkee fan, Jeter broke Gehrigs records and there’s a vqaccum.The implication to them is Jeter is better.
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Moshe Mandel Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 10:35 am
I dont think that is true. Jeter broke the hits record, but I have not seen one person claim that makes him better than Lou. You are adding meaning where there is none, and then attacking that strawman. What do you want them to say?
“Jeter breaks hit record, Gehrig still better.”
That seems silly. Why can’t we celebrate Jeter?
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The other Chris H Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Larry has a problem with everything and everyone how about Girardi just sits Jeter for the rest of the year and then never plays him again in the regular season so everyone can know Gherig was better, that would make Lefty happy I think… although not for long, he probably has some orphanage to go to and explain why Santa isn’t real.
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Is LeftyLarry Mike Francessa? Also its true Jeter isn’t better than Gehrig yet you have to factor in Jeter’s positional value. For a SS to put up the numbers he has is outstanding.
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Celebrate Jeter but not in a vaccum.Your name is Moishe so maybe this will elucidate.
“Israel invades Gaza, civilians killed,” could be an accurate statement and honest content.However without putting it in the CONTEXT of the Palestinians/Arabs first attacking Israel (many times over 60 years) and recently sending both suicide bombers and rockets into Israel that killed Israeli civilians, the entire situation loses meaning.That’s the problem we face in journalism and in T.V./ pop culture today, simplistic agenda driven content without context.I hate to see it in sports too.
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Moshe Mandel Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
I get what you are saying, but I am saying that the context does not apply here. Meaning, if the headline and article did in fact imply that Jeter was now better than Gehrig, you would need to contextualize the headline. However, being that I do not think anyone takes the headline in that manner, it is really not necessary.
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The other Chris H Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Larry you are adding something to everyone’s mouth, I am with Mo on this one I have not heard one person say Jeter was better, in fact I don’t recall anyone saying anything other than Jeter is the new Yankee hit king and it’s history… in fact I heard one ESPN reporter say “he has passed Lou Gherig…. in hits anyway” proving no one thinks Jeter is better, get over it and get a new soap box this one is caving in from your weight.
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Jeter is the best SS the Yanks have ever had, since I have been watching them. The only problem I have with this whole thing is, “Why is he now a sure fire HOF first ballot player”?
He has been good but, HOF good….? I don’t think so…not yet anyway.
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The other Chris H Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
BS the guy will end up with 3,000 hits when it is all said and done and he is already ahead of Pete Rose’s pace to set the all time hits record for a career by well over 50 hits.
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Old Ranger Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
“He has been good but, HOF good….? I don’t think so…not yet anyway.”
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I think the “not yet” part of my statement is very accurate, don’t you? Hearing Kay put him in the HOF already is ridiculous, he has No baseball records…only Yankee records. When he retires, that’s the time to think of the HOF. 3,000 hits is not a ticket to the HOF and he would need to play until he is…what 42 for 4,000.
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The other Chris H Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
First of all I could see Jeter playing to 42 easy, Rose did it and Jeter (if he moves to LF) should be able to have the longevity and graceful aging proccess that would allow him to do that so lets get that out of the way first.
Now I totally agree with you if Jeter retired right now or after his next hit he isn’t a hall of famer based on numbers, however he is so liked and so well known in this time period I think the sports writers would vote him in first ballot and never think twice about it. They vote for what they think he would do and what he did and because the guy has never done wrong on the field and we don’t hear about it when he does something wrong off the field. Is that fair? Probably not but he is in New York and the Yankee short stop we all want that gig….
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You speak to Baseball junkies, that’s your context.Most fans are causal and have little clue to Lou Gehrig’s stats, especially the younger and female fans.
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The other Chris H Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
I think Rebecca Glass might take offense to that but whatever…. Also I am 20 years old and probably know just as much Yankee and sports period history as you if not more. Come off your high horse oh mighty one so we may worship you, get over yourself and get off the soap box…. BREAKING NEWS DEREK JETER NOT THE IRON HORSE! RUN FOR THE HILLS!
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That’s a different conversation totally.
I for one feel that compiled statistics are nowhere near as important as they are made out to be.
Sandy Koufax absolutely dominated the game of BAseball from the pitchers mound like few have and deserved to be in the HOF on a short body of work.His team mate in 1966, Don Sutton was never much more than a top 10 pitcher in the league (even with his doctoring of the ball) and made the HAll because he played at a decent (not Koufax-like) level for many, many seasons.
Jeter has been one of the best players in baseball, one of the top players at a top position for probably 10-11 of his 14 seasons.How many SS’s have batted .330-.340 like he has(without steroids),hit HR’s, stolen bases and been totally clutch like he has for so long?
In my book, considering his COMPILED stats also, he’s clearly a HOF’er.
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Old Ranger Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
Your opinion counts as much as anyone else’s…mine is different that’s all.
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The other Chris H Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
It is more important to be great over a long period of time than it is to be dominate over a few seasons… If that is your basis for the hall then put Doc Gooden in because if he hadn’t got hurt he would have played at a more dominate level longer (and the drugs) but he dominated like very few pitchers ever have or ever will.
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Old Ranger Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
I don’t remember saying anything about long or short period of times. I am saying; “As of now, Jeter has done nothing to warrant a HOF vote.” Nice guys are a dime a dozen in baseball, HOF players aren’t. Why do some say Jeter is a HOF player but, someone with the numbers of A-Rod shouldn’t be voted in…just because of something he did years ago.
I also said “yet”, concerning his HOF vote.
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The other Chris H Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
I was not talking to you at all… I was replying to leftylarry who was talking about Koufax… This is why I don’t like the reply/quote format because quote Larry but goes under Ranger and then Ranger gets confused and I have to write this response to clear everything up.
Regarding your subject I already addressed what you said and my post had nothing to do with yours…. However Jeter has said he wants to play until he is 43 and then retire so if you take that serious and accept that Jeter is willing to move to the only position he can (left field) and continues to age gracefully he has a great chance if not a certainty of being the all time hit leader over Rose and then he would be sure fire HOF but still not better than Gehrig, Ruth, DiMaggio or Mantle maybe Berra but only him.
Also comparing Jeter to Arod in the hall of fame class makes no sense because steroids are the difference there and yes it is a difference to the voters and so is the fact that they all love Jeter, he will get in if he retires tomorrow.
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Old Ranger Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
My mistake Chris, not yours! I’m still trying to get the hang of this blog stuff. Have a good one!
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The other Chris H Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Yeah I respond to the wrong people a lot as well haha
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Moshe Mandel Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
If Jeter stopped playing tomorrow, he would make the Hall of Fame and deserve it. You are comparing his numbers to sluggers, when you need to be comparing them to SS. He is already one of the best offensive shortstops of all time, likely 3rd of all time. He is a lock, and would be if he quit tomorrow.
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The other Chris H Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
Well put… I think people under rate Jeter because they have the luxury of watching them every single day.
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Moshe Mandel Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Totally agree. We see him every day, and his greatness is in his consistency, which sort of gets lost because he isnt doing something spectacular on a regular basis.
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The other Chris H Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
Last year he hit .300 but it was a down year so that should show at least some of the pressure and high expectations we have for Jeter, other players would kill for Jeter’s numbers we just tend to expect them now.
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Hof’ers should be dominant players of their day.Not guys who lasted a long time.Dwight Gooden did not dominate very long, his first year or 2 were his best.
Guys who can say they are the best in Baseball for a period and then compile on top of that, Doc didn’t, are worthy of the Hall.Not guys who were maybe top 10-15 in baserball but played a long time.
That’s good for making money not for the Hall.
Who is a real HOF’er?
A guy who hits 30 HR’s/season for 20 seasons or a guy who hits 55 HR/ per 7 consecutive seasons and then is injured?
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Moshe Mandel Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Totally agree. Pure compilers (such as Harold Baines) don’t belong. Guys who were dominant for a short period and then compile, they usually belong. Guys who were dominant for a long time certainly belong.
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The other Chris H Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
I don’t mean someone who was good for a long time, Posada has been good for a long time but isn’t a HOFer to me… I mean someone who has been great for a long time but I don’t believe someone who dominated for a short stretch and then had to retire or whatever should get in they just didn’t prove they could play long enough at that level.
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The other Chris H Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
However if you are trying to say compilers can’t be great your wrong… Hank Aaron was a great compiler he never had any one huge oh my god HR season but his numbers were always consistent, he was a great compiler but he isn’t the greatest power hitter to ever live.
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Your argument is no good because HAnk Aaron was a great fielder, had a great arm and batted .300 often in his long career.He was not a truly great HR/power hitter, there, I agree he compiled in small advantageous Ball parks that he played in but he was a great all-around player, who would have been a HOF’er if he quit a few years earlier and didn’t break the record.JMHO.
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The other Chris H Reply:
September 10th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
You just agreed with me…!! You said compilers don’t belong in the Hall but I said not all compilers aren’t great players Hank was a great player but his numbers were never the best in the league he was just consistently in the top 5-10 and that is why he is a compiling hall of famer… He never dominated one season like Bonds or Pujols this year where no one is even close to the level of production they are cranking out.
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I guess I have the distinct disadvantage of having actually seen Aaron in 1957 when they beat the Yankees in the WS (only to lose to the YANKS IN 58).
Aaron batted .322 in the regular season, and lead the league in HR’s and RBI’s.That’s pretty close to a triple crown.Aside from Willie Mays and the oft injured Mantle (Musial & Williams were already old though still great hitters only) Aaron was probably the 3rd best player in baseball in those days.CLemente was beginning to roll too but didn’t hit for as much power and Al KAline never got to the level expected when he lead the league in hitting as a youngster.Frank Robinson was there too but wasn’t doing what Aaron was yet.
Aaron led the league in hitting in 1959 I believe with a .355 average and had already led the league in hits & doubles as a beginner in 1956.He stole bases, was a teriffic fielder (started in the majors as a 2nd baseman)and had a strong arm.
He was HOF’er long before he compiled the HR record.
Like I said, the HR totals were somewhat bogus from the standpoint of the Stadiums he played in ( I think singles hitting but still great Maury Wills had most of his career HR’s against the Braves LOL) and the length of his career but he was HOF”er without the HR record.
I actually saw his entire career which of course is nothing compared to reading statistics.
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